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-   -   The new clues that suggest missing Richey staged his own dissapearance (http://www.foreverdelayed.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=62964)

UEF 26-01-2019 11:26

The new clues that suggest missing Richey staged his own dissapearance
 
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-...manic-15731157

Marat Sar 26-01-2019 13:46

oooooooh yeaaaaaaaaaah. my favourite version of history.

Son of Stopped 26-01-2019 15:27

Staged... And carried out his disappearance!
Didn't know about Israel or "Vivian".
More grief for the band when meeting fans as they'll have to put up with random shouts of "HE IZ ISRUAL!! YOJ KNEW!" spoiling the pre-gig/post-gig meets and greets though!

darkanddivine 26-01-2019 15:52

I never quite know what to make of this stuff.

There are so many angles, from the mythology of the 90s that's inextricably linked to the present day band via the first 3 albums. Then there's the alleged disconnect between the family and the modern day MSP (although this is mainly rumour to my knowledge.)

Is this just their chance to put their side forward? And if that were true, it seems odd to have the line in the article about hoping people draw their own conclusions, if they believe the version on the record doesn't stack up against their own.

Intriguing either way.

Vancouver 26-01-2019 18:16

This new "evidence" is ridiculous.

Europa Gluten Free 26-01-2019 18:23

Looks like this project is being driven by his sister. I didn't realise both their parents are dead. Very sad.

I'm guessing, due to her strained relationship with the band, that they haven't contributed.

Porco 26-01-2019 18:42

I can understand she wants to reclaim the sense of her brother, the person, set against the what must be frequently overwhelming legend of the missing rock star. I wish her well. And I still hope Richey is out there somewhere, and happy.

handbag 26-01-2019 19:17

“The lady cutting his hair said ‘he’s actually living in a kibbutz in Israel, everybody knows’.

I know, you know, we all know.

Bryter Layter 26-01-2019 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkanddivine (Post 2677117)
I never quite know what to make of this stuff.

There are so many angles, from the mythology of the 90s that's inextricably linked to the present day band via the first 3 albums. Then there's the alleged disconnect between the family and the modern day MSP (although this is mainly rumour to my knowledge.)

Is this just their chance to put their side forward? And if that were true, it seems odd to have the line in the article about hoping people draw their own conclusions, if they believe the version on the record doesn't stack up against their own.

Intriguing either way.

I used to think that this disconnect (nice word for “can’t stand”) was a rumour too, but over the years, it’s become fairly evident that his sister doesn’t particularly like them. I wouldn’t want to speculate why, but there are rumours that Richey allegedly didn’t like the band members very much before he disappeared. Perhaps that has something to do with it. All of this makes me think this book is going to be a bit of a bashing of the remaining members. I mean, I revisited the posts that one of the authors used to make here a few years ago and they’re mostly posts bashing the band. This person is clearly not a fan of the band without Richey. I’m not saying the book will be unfavourable to the Manics, but it’s a possibility and fans should be prepared for that if they choose to read it.

handbag 26-01-2019 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter (Post 2677124)
I used to think that this disconnect (nice word for “can’t stand”) was a rumour too, but over the years, it’s become fairly evident that his sister doesn’t particularly like them.

I'll raise you to obvious she's not particularly fond of band members. I think it was around the time she was asking for information about Picturesque and seemed pissed off because they'd used her brother's lyrics and she didn't know. I sensed "quietly seething".

I might be having false memory syndrome here, but somewhere in the archives (old interviews) didn't Rachel say she thought they treated Richey shabbily when he wasn't well? I know his illness took it's toll on the band and I can understand that from both sides - Richey trying to be a part of the band when his mind was elsewhere and the band being relatively young and not knowing how to deal with mental illness.

I do think that Richey was kind of getting his shit together towards the end which has always made me think that maybe he just did decide to sod off because pretending to play a guitar night after night isn't something I'd imagine (only imagine) Richey would want to do when he had other interests. Speculation really gets us nowhere though.

It's an endless nightmare for his sister and her church, resentment, the urge to keep looking for clues is the thing that's keeping her together?

?

It's cute to see some of Richey's things. I can't afford to spend £20 on a book, but I'll camp out at Waterstones and read it with an open mind (filtering out the hairdresser lady and other suspect information). When someone's not around any more it's good to see new old photos etc. Same kind of thing with Cobain...

To end my wall of text, it's quite easy to interpret things into Richey's actions, choice of books he gave as gifts, tattoos, as others have said. I thought of one myself concerning the Circle of Hell tattoo, a really detailed theory, but that's all it is. And, yeah, it's bullshit really.

Bryter Layter 26-01-2019 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by handbag (Post 2677125)
I'll raise you to obvious she's not particularly fond of band members. I think it was around the time she was asking for information about Picturesque and seemed pissed off because they'd used her brother's lyrics and she didn't know. I sensed "quietly seething".

I might be having false memory syndrome here, but somewhere in the archives (old interviews) didn't Rachel say she thought they treated Richey shabbily when he wasn't well? I know his illness took it's toll on the band and I can understand that from both sides - Richey trying to be a part of the band when his mind was elsewhere and the band being relatively young and not knowing how to deal with mental illness.

I do think that Richey was kind of getting his shit together towards the end which has always made me think that maybe he just did decide to sod off because pretending to play a guitar night after night isn't something I'd imagine (only imagine) Richey would want to do when he had other interests. Speculation really gets us nowhere though.

It's an endless nightmare for his sister and her church, resentment, the urge to keep looking for clues is the thing that's keeping her together?

?

It's cute to see some of Richey's things. I can't afford to spend £20 on a book, but I'll camp out at Waterstones and read it with an open mind (filtering out the hairdresser lady and other suspect information). When someone's not around any more it's good to see new old photos etc. Same kind of thing with Cobain...

To end my wall of text, it's quite easy to interpret things into Richey's actions, choice of books he gave as gifts, tattoos, as others have said. I thought of one myself concerning the Circle of Hell tattoo, a really detailed theory, but that's all it is. And, yeah, it's bullshit really.

Did they use his lyrics for Picturesque? I didnít know that! He isnít credited. Is it the ďone bread, one milkĒ line?

Yeah, Iím sure she has her reasons for disliking them and sheís absolutely entitled to her feelings. Sheís privy to a world not many, if any, fans have access to so itís not for any of us to judge, really. As for how the band handled his illness, it does seem that they were unable to be of much help to him when he came out of hospital (I believe theyíve said as much themselves), but, letís be honest, he really shouldnít have been on tour so soon after leaving hospital anyway. People with very little experience dealing with mental illness shouldnít be faulted for not knowing how to cope with it. Assuming thatís the reason for the animosity.

Do you think he had it together before he split? In the interview with the Japanese reporter, he did seem to be a lot more focused, but he was also wearing pajamas.

Iíll likely buy the book for the sole reason that his sister had a lot of input and Iím interested to read her perspective. Beyond that though, I think most of these ďtheoriesĒ are reaching at best. Iím also interested to see what consists of his ďarchiveĒ. Is it just books and note books? Oh and Iím curious as to when this Jo woman became his girlfriend. Even in his last interview he still maintained that the longest relationship he ever had lasted 4 days when he was younger. He does mention a woman (obviously this Jo person), but he didnít speak of her in terms of a being in a relationship. Of course, itís entirely possible he was lying to protect his privacy. I hope he did have some kind of relationship because I always found his inability to find companionship really sad.

GregRoss 26-01-2019 23:26

If Richey is alive, which I doubt, he clearly doesn’t want anyone to bother him. So why look for him? Give him the respect he deserves (yes, I know that was not a compliment in Archives of Pain but I mean it as one here).

I understand his sister is still distraught and having recently lost both her parents she probably feels even more alone in the world.

I would love for him to be alive and hopefully happy.

But if he alive is it’s up to him to come forward.

handbag 27-01-2019 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter (Post 2677127)
Did they use his lyrics for Picturesque? I didnít know that! He isnít credited. Is it the ďone bread, one milkĒ line?

I would prefer no choice
One bread, one milk, one food, that's all
I'm confused, I only want one truth
I really don't mind being lied to

on All Is Vanity

and

That shadow is a cross okay
Judgment must willing today
Silence is not sacrifice
Crucifixion is the easy life

from Doors Closing Slowly

so unless the Picturesque line's in Richey's notes somewhere, that's probably Nicky's contribution.

(Thinking about it, it might be somewhere on this board that his sister was asking for info). EDIT: Just searched and it was SRH asking about it in 2016.

I wouldn't say he "had it together" before AWOL, but (easy to say in retrospect), it seemed like he knew what he was going to do with his (big, scary word) future. While the majority of the stuff in that article sounds naaah, who knows. To me it isn't a fantastical idea that he decided to make a new life because others do it for a stack of different reasons.

I doubt we'll ever know. If he was found alive he'd be hounded to death (inappropriate wording, but you catch my drift).

Red 27-01-2019 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter (Post 2677127)
Did they use his lyrics for Picturesque? I didnít know that! He isnít credited. Is it the ďone bread, one milkĒ line?

Just about the whole thing is a bit of a hodge-podge of his lyrics.

I would like, I would prefer no choice,
Just one bread, one milk, one food for all,
I'm confused I only want one truth,
I really don't mind being lied to,
Don't mind being lied to...


are definitely his, and were recycled for All Is Vanity as

I would prefer no choice
One bread, one milk, one food, that's all
I'm confused, I only want one truth
I really don't mind being lied to



The second verse is also his -

The shadow is, the shadow is a cross okay,
But judgement must, judgement must be willing today,
SIlence is not sacrifice, crucifixion the easy life,
Crucifixion the easy life...


and was reused for (or taken from?) Doors Closing Slowly's chorus,

That shadow is a cross okay
Judgement must willing today
Silence is not sacrifice
Crucifixion is the easy life



The last verse,

The luxury of one more try,
Pretend he'll never need the ugly life,
He'll never lead the ugly life...


was reused for All Is Vanity too -

The luxury of one more dye
Pretend humility, the ugly lie




IIRC, Picturesque was credited to the Manics as a collective, although it was heralded as featuring Richey lyrics at the time. I guess the only bit Nicky contributed was the chorus, which goes with how they often wrote, and which fits with his usual style of repeating a word or phrase.

Dac X Lee 27-01-2019 03:42

I mostly share the same thoughts as all of you who posted here so far, but I'd like to add about that part about his sister's will to reclaim him in a way for him to be remembered by his talents, rather than his troubles.

That's something I wish too. For him to be remembered for the things he was good at, rather than for his weaknesses. That seems to be also what he would have wanted for himself too.
But, on the other hand, it is also important to remember his case in order to understand potenial future cases similar to his and, possibly, prevent them.

Anyway, it's a sad story over all.

Mr Richey 27-01-2019 11:21

Of course he staged his own disappearance; he wasn’t kidnapped!

I see no significant new information here whatsoever. It’s well known that he was regularly withdrawing large amounts of money in the lead up to his disappearance, that he left packages to be found both at the hotel and his flat, that he stopped taking his medication and that he abandoned his car by the Severn Bridge. The only new thing mentioned here is that he was interested in visiting Israel. That’s it. Not exactly earth shattering stuff, is it?

UEF 27-01-2019 11:34

The one thing that makes me think that he's probably not with us any more is that eventually you'd probably come back for the money that had been accusing in the bank account in the years since.

I think the band think this too. "Richey never had a mobile phone" etc - suggests he didn't stick around long enough to get one.

I don't blame his family for not being chums with the band. Why should they be?

Elizabeth M 27-01-2019 11:34

There’s no way Richey will be remembered widely for anything but his troubles and disappearance, especially because he was never really famous for anything else. That may do an injustice to him as an individual or as an artistic talent, but it’s human nature.

As for the book, it could be interesting, but to me it doesn’t seem there's any question as to whether or not Richey staged his disappearance. I think it has always been pretty obvious that he staged it. The questions is what happened to him afterwards. Still no answer to that, of course. I feel for Rachel and the other loved ones he left behind. It’s a horrible thing to live with.

wireobsessed 27-01-2019 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Richey (Post 2677134)
Of course he staged his own disappearance; he wasnít kidnapped!

I see no significant new information here whatsoever. Itís well known that he was regularly withdrawing large amounts of money in the lead up to his disappearance, that he left packages to be found both at the hotel and his flat, that he stopped taking his medication and that he abandoned his car by the Severn Bridge. The only new thing mentioned here is that he was interested in visiting Israel. Thatís it. Not exactly earth shattering stuff, is it?

Totally agree.

I totally understand if people hate what I'm about to write but this has really got to me. I won't read this book. Over the past two days I've become increasingly pissed off with what's been publicised and written. I know I've not read the book but from what has been written via Wales Online and The Sunday Times there doesn't seem to be much new evidence of anything. I get that Rachel is still grieving and frustrated and angry. God knows we all would be but it's her decision again to produce a book that just reinforces the "stereotypical" tortured rock star image of Richey. If she want to reclaim her brother this is not the way to do it. Too many people will simply focus on the sensational stuff-the anorexia, the drinking, the cutting and self harm, the psychological and mental health issues and then the way the book appears to push the idea that he was obsessive about disappearing. The front cover even seems to have been chosen to show the eternal "rock-star" image. If she'd wanted to reclaim him as her brother she should have used a different image.
That said, what has got to me most has been the issue she seems to have with James, Sean and Nicky. The Times article states she is angry with the band and it's hardly hidden. What the hell has she got to be angry with them for? They have acted with dignity and love from the moment Richey left. They still don't know the truth and have suffered just as much. Perhaps she should have considered that. They've clearly not been involved in this and you can't imagine them issuing any kind of reply or statement. It will inevitably hurt them for all sorts of reasons. It's been an incredibly tough 18 months for the boys and Nicky particularly, I wonder if Rachel ever considered that when she was involved in this and particularly with the press articles surrounding the book release? Mourning for a loved one brings back all those feelings of loss you've experienced before, I feel for Nicky so much. It must feel like a smack in the face.
I hate exploitative journalism and this feels so much like that. The release date coincides with Richey's disappearance, the press focussing on the mythology, which Rachel claims to want to avoid, the cover photo, publicly expressing anger at the band and raising the issue that Richey didn't like them or get on with them before his disappearance.... I could go on.
Wherever and however he is, I hope he's found peace. If he is out there living a quiet, happy life this won't help him either. Let things be, rakeing over details, myths and whatever's won't help anyone; least of all Rachel. Some things need to be left well alone; this is one of them.

Routine Builder 27-01-2019 13:01

With regards to Picturesque, I remember at the time Nick stating that they had been working on the
lyric together hence why they felt they could use it. This does kinda makes sense to me, Motorcycle Emptiness is a Hodge Podge of three or four seperate songs.

I have severe doubts that the band would just pilfer the leftover lyrics for a free EP. I don't personally ever remember Rachel talking about the band though, I never seen anything to suggest there was a private feud.

Routine Builder 27-01-2019 13:05

Wire Obsessed comments pretty much captures how I feel about the book and its release.

River Boy 27-01-2019 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth M (Post 2677136)

As for the book, it could be interesting, but to me it doesnít seem there's any question as to whether or not Richey staged his disappearance. I think it has always been pretty obvious that he staged it. The questions is what happened to him afterwards. Still no answer to that, of course. I feel for Rachel and the other loved ones he left behind. Itís a horrible thing to live with.

Completely agree, I've always thought that it was obviously a staged disappearance, not a suicide. Obviously there's no way of knowing if it went well or if he's still alive somewhere now, but I don't understand why so many respond to the idea that he's alive as if you're debating the existence of the Loch Ness monster or something.

I'm interested in the book, purely because it has Rachel's approval. I was very surprised to learn she had agreed to anything, so she must have felt the content was fresh enough (I ignored the last attempt which emerged a few years back and just seemed to repeat stuff from the biographies).

Didn't read the whole of the article though. Will reserve judgement as journalism, by its nature, provides a very clumsy summation of anything slightly complicated. So will decide what I think when reading the book, as granted some of the content in the article will be abbreviated and poorly detailed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireobsessed (Post 2677138)
Totally agree.

I totally understand if people hate what I'm about to write but this has really got to me. I won't read this book. Over the past two days I've become increasingly pissed off with what's been publicised and written. I know I've not read the book but from what has been written via Wales Online and The Sunday Times there doesn't seem to be much new evidence of anything. I get that Rachel is still grieving and frustrated and angry. God knows we all would be but it's her decision again to produce a book that just reinforces the "stereotypical" tortured rock star image of Richey. If she want to reclaim her brother this is not the way to do it. Too many people will simply focus on the sensational stuff-the anorexia, the drinking, the cutting and self harm, the psychological and mental health issues and then the way the book appears to push the idea that he was obsessive about disappearing. The front cover even seems to have been chosen to show the eternal "rock-star" image. If she'd wanted to reclaim him as her brother she should have used a different image.
That said, what has got to me most has been the issue she seems to have with James, Sean and Nicky. The Times article states she is angry with the band and it's hardly hidden. What the hell has she got to be angry with them for? They have acted with dignity and love from the moment Richey left. They still don't know the truth and have suffered just as much. Perhaps she should have considered that. They've clearly not been involved in this and you can't imagine them issuing any kind of reply or statement. It will inevitably hurt them for all sorts of reasons. It's been an incredibly tough 18 months for the boys and Nicky particularly, I wonder if Rachel ever considered that when she was involved in this and particularly with the press articles surrounding the book release? Mourning for a loved one brings back all those feelings of loss you've experienced before, I feel for Nicky so much. It must feel like a smack in the face.
I hate exploitative journalism and this feels so much like that. The release date coincides with Richey's disappearance, the press focussing on the mythology, which Rachel claims to want to avoid, the cover photo, publicly expressing anger at the band and raising the issue that Richey didn't like them or get on with them before his disappearance.... I could go on.
Wherever and however he is, I hope he's found peace. If he is out there living a quiet, happy life this won't help him either. Let things be, rakeing over details, myths and whatever's won't help anyone; least of all Rachel. Some things need to be left well alone; this is one of them.

The decisions regarding cover and timing, etc., would have come from the publishing company who would be sensitive to sales above all else. That does not mean that the book doesn't come from a good place.

Could be worse. The first US publisher to publish The Hobbit put an emu on the cover.

Routine Builder 27-01-2019 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Routine Builder (Post 2677139)
With regards to Picturesque, I remember at the time Nick stating that they had been working on the
lyric together hence why they felt they could use it. This does kinda makes sense to me, Motorcycle Emptiness is a Hodge Podge of three or four seperate songs.

I have severe doubts that the band would just pilfer the leftover lyrics for a free EP. I don't personally ever remember Rachel talking about the band though, I never seen anything to suggest there was a private feud.

Thanks MSPEDIA!

http://www.foreverdelayed.org.uk/msp..._Phill_Jupitus

wireobsessed 27-01-2019 15:30

Thanks xx

Routine Builder 27-01-2019 15:41

Honestly, I'd prefer a release of Richey's 'Opulence' folder over another 'tragic icon' fake biography by a would be author with too little imagine to have an original idea. I imagine there's reams and reams of unreleased material that would tell us more about Richey the artist.

wireobsessed 27-01-2019 15:49

Totally agree abt the publishers and release dates etc, just leaves a bit of a bad taste personally. I wish Rachel the best and hope this helps her, I just find it really strange that suddenly there appears to be issue with The Manics. To my knowledge this has never been suggested before; I wonder why now?

Anaconda Vice 27-01-2019 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregRoss (Post 2677128)
If Richey is alive, which I doubt, he clearly doesnít want anyone to bother him. So why look for him? Give him the respect he deserves (yes, I know that was not a compliment in Archives of Pain but I mean it as one here).

I understand his sister is still distraught and having recently lost both her parents she probably feels even more alone in the world.

I would love for him to be alive and hopefully happy.

But if he alive is itís up to him to come forward.

My sentiments exactly.

Over the years, with all the things said about the subject of Richey disappearing like he did, I reached this conclusion:

After The Holy Bible and everything he was going through personally that year, he knew that he had to change something. That meant in his mind, perhaps leaving EVERYTHING behind.

To Richey, just leaving the Manic Street Preachers wouldn't have been enough. He'd then just be an ex-rock star, while his friends may have carried on. Imagine him hanging around Cardiff, with the Manic Street Preachers carrying on without him. It would be a constant reminder of that darkness he went though and was still going through.

So yeah, maybe he thought that leaving the band was never going to be enough and he had to make a total break from everything. He hasn't been found because when he went, he didn't want to be found. If someone found him, they'd want him to come back home and he would be back to square one.

That would a hard pill for those around him back then (the band, and his family) to swallow, but I don't know. I'm obviously not him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Routine Builder (Post 2677145)
Honestly, I'd prefer a release of Richey's 'Opulence' folder over another 'tragic icon' fake biography by a would be author with too little imagine to have an original idea. I imagine there's reams and reams of unreleased material that would tell us more about Richey the artist.

Yeah, a "scrapbook" of sorts, scans of his writings, without context or any kind of emphasis on anything, left for people to read would be an interesting document of the kind of writer he was, the "poet" he's often been described as by his former bandmates.

Velocitygirl 28-01-2019 01:24

I'd be interested to know where this story about "Vivian" came from and how they know she was in his hotel room. All the more intriguing because they seemt to be relating a verbatim conversation that was supposed to have happened between her and Richey. I forget the wording, but it was something along the lines of him trying to give her his passport, adding that he wouldn't be needing it anymore.

How do they know there was a woman in his hotel room? How do they know about a convo they had? That all seems like such a stretch to me. And, really, wtf is the point in him giving her his passport? What conceivable use would she have for it?

As for the woman down the hairdresser's who claims "everyone" knows he's living in a kibutz in Israel ... well, that's just bollocks. Clearly, not everyone knows that.

As for Rachel Elias' anger toward the remaining band members, that is understandable. In her position, I'd be lashing out too. But, IMO, the remaining Manics have handled Richey and his disappearance with endless tact, sensitivity and dignity. Nicky, in particular, seems particularly heartbroken. You only need to listen to Holy as the Soil to know that, or just listen to him talking about Richey etc.

It's just an awful situation all around. And, like everyone else, I hope Richey is alive and well. Meanwhile, I strongly suspect he is not.

roi 28-01-2019 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocitygirl (Post 2677151)
I'd be interested to know where this story about "Vivian" came from and how they know she was in his hotel room. All the more intriguing because they seemt to be relating a verbatim conversation that was supposed to have happened between her and Richey. I forget the wording, but it was something along the lines of him trying to give her his passport, adding that he wouldn't be needing it anymore.

How do they know there was a woman in his hotel room? How do they know about a convo they had? That all seems like such a stretch to me. And, really, wtf is the point in him giving her his passport? What conceivable use would she have for it?

As for the woman down the hairdresser's who claims "everyone" knows he's living in a kibutz in Israel ... well, that's just bollocks. Clearly, not everyone knows that.

As for Rachel Elias' anger toward the remaining band members, that is understandable. In her position, I'd be lashing out too. But, IMO, the remaining Manics have handled Richey and his disappearance with endless tact, sensitivity and dignity. Nicky, in particular, seems particularly heartbroken. You only need to listen to Holy as the Soil to know that, or just listen to him talking about Richey etc.

It's just an awful situation all around. And, like everyone else, I hope Richey is alive and well. Meanwhile, I strongly suspect he is not.

Wasnít there an interview with her perhaps 10 or 15 years ago where she speaks positively of the band members? Iím sure I remember this. Obviously itís a fairly complicated and difficult situation, but much of the dislike from her iíve read about seems to have been from second hand reporting rather than directly from her.

Velocitygirl 28-01-2019 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by roi (Post 2677153)
Wasnít there an interview with her perhaps 10 or 15 years ago where she speaks positively of the band members? Iím sure I remember this. Obviously itís a fairly complicated and difficult situation, but much of the dislike from her iíve read about seems to have been from second hand reporting rather than directly from her.


I really couldn't say. I haven't read many interviews with Rachel at all, tbh. One of the few I have read she stated she hadn't seen or spoken to the band since they attended her father's funeral (I don't know what year that was). I think I heard somewhere that she wasn't happy about his lyrics being used in Journal. Which does seem strange. Assuming Richey didn't leave those lyrics with the band so they could line budgie cages with them, it seems only natural that he wanted them to be used to make more music. That was his blessing for the band to carry on without him. But, like I said, I can understand if she's upset with the way things have gone.

Routine Builder 28-01-2019 13:22

I do remember something to the effect that Richey had a girlfriend at the time and one of the boxes he left behind was for her. I also remember a band member stating there was nothing of relevance in the box.

With regards to JFPL, I'm pretty sure they got some form informal consent from Richey's family.

If I was to speculate about where a rift came from, it might have been the focus on the band rather than the family in the first years following Richey's disappearance. Quite a few raw things were said by both James and Nick that they would probably have not made public today. The family were ignored back then and it's only since around the mid 2000s did Rachel step up to claim his cause.

Europa Gluten Free 28-01-2019 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Routine Builder (Post 2677155)

If I was to speculate about where a rift came from, it might have been the focus on the band rather than the family in the first years following Richey's disappearance. Quite a few raw things were said by both James and Nick that they would probably have not made public today. The family were ignored back then and it's only since around the mid 2000s did Rachel step up to claim his cause.

I think the rift came from the sense that the band accelerated Richey's issues. I think Nicky has mentioned this himself over the years. I'm sure the thought is there if he had never joined the Manics, he would be still around. And that's a plausible argument.

I also do wonder if the success of the band makes his sister feel that they profited from it. And you could argue that they have profited. The Manics have always been about rock n'roll mythology, and Richey's disappearance, the book he left behind etc etc is building up that myth. What if Richey just left in 1995? What would have happened? They wouldn't have had that emotional wave to ride on to produce an album like EMG. With a song like DFL it would have still been successful, but it wouldn't have been the same album.

It's a very difficult situation.

Elizabeth M 28-01-2019 13:46

Perhaps Rachel's grudge against the band is a coping mechanism born of the years of dealing with the absence of her brother, with the search, the questions, the disappointments, etc., and the grief of losing both of her parents (who, if I recall correctly, died pretty close together) on top of that.

I remember reading that the Manics had asked permission of Richey's family to use the left-behind lyrics to make Journal For Plague Lovers. Richey being declared presumed dead was also the decision of the parents, the band had nothing to do with that. Perhaps those were decisions of Richey's parents that Rachel did not agree with, but now there's no one but the band left to be angry at.

almostfamous 28-01-2019 13:55

I'll be reading this - seems cheapest at WHSmiths for £14 btw - but find it somewhat counter productive to aim to reclaim Richey from his Rock N Roll mythology whilst referring to him as "Richey Manic" in the title!?!

Europa Gluten Free 28-01-2019 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by almostfamous (Post 2677158)
I'll be reading this - seems cheapest at WHSmiths for £14 btw - but find it somewhat counter productive to aim to reclaim Richey from his Rock N Roll mythology whilst referring to him as "Richey Manic" in the title!?!

I won't be reading it. I can't see anything new coming out of it.

Velocitygirl 28-01-2019 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Routine Builder (Post 2677155)

If I was to speculate about where a rift came from, it might have been the focus on the band rather than the family in the first years following Richey's disappearance. Quite a few raw things were said by both James and Nick that they would probably have not made public today. The family were ignored back then and it's only since around the mid 2000s did Rachel step up to claim his cause.

Yes, this. The family were ignored. But the band had to tread a very fine line. They couldn't, and wouldn't, deign to speak for the family, so they had to talk about Richey all the time without dragging his family into it or appearing to take "ownership" of him from his family. All they could really do was try to emphasise that the family were suffering a great deal more than them. The coverage has been undeniably skewed.

But it seemed like the band were trying to reclaim Richey from that hardcore group of fans who idolised him. In turn, Rachel's trying to reclaim Richey from that whole "rock star" image. It's difficult to explain.

Velocitygirl 28-01-2019 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by almostfamous (Post 2677158)
I'll be reading this - seems cheapest at WHSmiths for £14 btw - but find it somewhat counter productive to aim to reclaim Richey from his Rock N Roll mythology whilst referring to him as "Richey Manic" in the title!?!


To be fair, that would have been the decision of the publisher rather than the authors. Anything on the cover, dust-jacket or accompanying blurb is pretty much down to the publishers. As is the date of publication.

Bryter Layter 28-01-2019 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by handbag (Post 2677129)
I would prefer no choice
One bread, one milk, one food, that's all
I'm confused, I only want one truth
I really don't mind being lied to

on All Is Vanity

and

That shadow is a cross okay
Judgment must willing today
Silence is not sacrifice
Crucifixion is the easy life

from Doors Closing Slowly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red (Post 2677130)
Just about the whole thing is a bit of a hodge-podge of his lyrics.

I would like, I would prefer no choice,
Just one bread, one milk, one food for all,
I'm confused I only want one truth,
I really don't mind being lied to,
Don't mind being lied to...


are definitely his, and were recycled for All Is Vanity as

I would prefer no choice
One bread, one milk, one food, that's all
I'm confused, I only want one truth
I really don't mind being lied to



The second verse is also his -

The shadow is, the shadow is a cross okay,
But judgement must, judgement must be willing today,
SIlence is not sacrifice, crucifixion the easy life,
Crucifixion the easy life...


and was reused for (or taken from?) Doors Closing Slowly's chorus,

Thank you both! I knew that line in particular was familiar, but truth be told, I haven't heard Picturesque in ages and I haven't really listened to JFPL in full in a while.

I find it really suspect as to why Richey wasn't credited as a songwriter on Picturesque. Why wasn't this noted when JFPL came out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth M (Post 2677136)
Thereís no way Richey will be remembered widely for anything but his troubles and disappearance, especially because he was never really famous for anything else. That may do an injustice to him as an individual or as an artistic talent, but itís human nature.

Exactly! I think to a lot of the Manics fan base, he is appreciated for his wit, cynicism, lyrics and artistic eye (to some he's also appreciated for his looks), but in terms of the wider world of music and pop culture in general, he's really only known for his self harm and his disappearance. Even then, in some places like where I'm from, most people don't even know he existed.

I found it rather odd that the author interviewed for that piece in Wales Online, suggested that Richey wasn't as famous as Kurt Cobain because nobody knows what his fate was. That's ridiculous! The reality is, he's not as famous as Kurt Cobain because he was never as successful as Cobain. It has nothing to do with the fact that Cobain - to be rather blunt - left a body.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth M (Post 2677136)
As for the book, it could be interesting, but to me it doesnít seem there's any question as to whether or not Richey staged his disappearance. I think it has always been pretty obvious that he staged it. The questions is what happened to him afterwards.

Yep! I think most people definitely always knew it was planned and staged. I mean, if you know the story, it's pretty obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Routine Builder (Post 2677139)
I have severe doubts that the band would just pilfer the leftover lyrics for a free EP.

I don't think they would either, but why isn't he credited for those lines?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocitygirl (Post 2677151)
I'd be interested to know where this story about "Vivian" came from and how they know she was in his hotel room. All the more intriguing because they seemt to be relating a verbatim conversation that was supposed to have happened between her and Richey. I forget the wording, but it was something along the lines of him trying to give her his passport, adding that he wouldn't be needing it anymore.

How do they know there was a woman in his hotel room? How do they know about a convo they had? That all seems like such a stretch to me. And, really, wtf is the point in him giving her his passport? What conceivable use would she have for it?

Right?! Hopefully they'll cite their sources for this info, but it's strange that no one has ever mentioned he had company in his room that evening. Perhaps it was a rumour started by some of the fans. I remember at the time that there were a lot of fans coming forward claiming to have had an encounter with him just before he split and a few days after. Some were probably legit while others were likely hoaxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocitygirl (Post 2677154)
I think I heard somewhere that she wasn't happy about his lyrics being used in Journal.

Around 2009, someone popped up on this forum claiming to be Rachel and writing really nasty things about the band in reference to them using his lyrics for JFPL. At the time I think we all assumed this person was full of shit, but now, I'm not so sure. From what I remember of that member's rant, it sounded like they were accusing the band of pressuring the father into allowing the use of the lyrics. Still, I think her issues with them go back earlier than that though. If you read the Times review of the book, they even mention that she indeed has issues with them and those issues seem to stem from a few things including them not doing enough when he first went missing. Probably blames them for not doing enough for him when he was ill too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free (Post 2677156)
I think the rift came from the sense that the band accelerated Richey's issues. I think Nicky has mentioned this himself over the years. I'm sure the thought is there if he had never joined the Manics, he would be still around. And that's a plausible argument.

I think that's a plausible argument too, but I'm not sure how the band can be faulted for that. I don't think they forced him to be in the band. He was an adult and made his own decisions.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free (Post 2677156)
I also do wonder if the success of the band makes his sister feel that they profited from it. And you could argue that they have profited. The Manics have always been about rock n'roll mythology, and Richey's disappearance, the book he left behind etc etc is building up that myth. What if Richey just left in 1995? What would have happened? They wouldn't have had that emotional wave to ride on to produce an album like EMG. With a song like DFL it would have still been successful, but it wouldn't have been the same album.

Listen, I love the band, but they 100% profited from both his self harm and his disappearance. The thing is though, Richey was totally complicit in this so again, you can't really fault them. It's not like they exploited something he himself wasn't exploiting already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by almostfamous (Post 2677158)
...find it somewhat counter productive to aim to reclaim Richey from his Rock N Roll mythology whilst referring to him as "Richey Manic" in the title!?!

Based on what I've read elsewhere about this book, that seems to be a bone of contention among a lot of fans. Not only calling him "Richey Manic", but also the photo they've chosen to use. I guess, even when you have the best of intentions, you still realize that his mythology is what is going to sell the book at the end of the day.

theplague 28-01-2019 18:49

So this is the cover artwork for the book and Rachel wants to reclaim her brotherís rep/legacy from the rock roll mythology, and is angry at the band for ďexploitngĒ it(is this verified in any way at all? That sheís angry for that reason?)
She really canít be feeling well herself. Understandable, but so out of touch with things.

https://raru.co.za/books/5276287-wit...erts-hardcover

The Vivian + kibbutz traces are a little interesting I must say. Will read the book for those reasons.

Europa Gluten Free 28-01-2019 19:34

All these new leads gives Jimbo crooning "Oh, Vivian" a whole new meaning!

Someone start deciphering THOSE lyrics!


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