Textbook definition of libel

Your allegations are unfounded, malicious and shouldn't have a place on the forum

You can’t libel someone who has died / is legally dead. And I’m also not sure why you think that what Bryter said is malicious and unfounded. True, we cannot verify anything now, and maybe it isn’t helpful therefore to repeat rumours, however, I must say that the book only increases the impression that these rumours may be true.

Bryter, re the bit about the woods, your interpretation does make sense, I suppose I was thrown by it being one paragraph without any context. A good writer would have added pretty much what you said, rather than moving straight on.

And so he's fair game?
Malicious because it's intended to harm. A rumour is by definition unfounded (and rarely has good intent).
I didn't read any such impression in the book

Fuuuckkk. I just wrote a huge response that is now gone and I don’t want to write it again

Cough cough* public forum * cough cough
Cough cough* public forum where members of the Edwards family have been forum members so probably not wise to nonchalantly throw out paedophilia accusations*cough cough

Round two

The book made me realize even more that the remaining members conducted themselves in a very respectful manner regarding Richey. Despite a few responses James said leaving me to believe he was in the anger stages of grief. I give him a pass as he is now always respectful to Richey and maintaining the band. They sent richey to hospital and visited every day, paid for his treatment, and gave him several options to decide ih should tour or not. I think they made the best decision to take Richey on the tour. They thought they were doing a good thing. On tour the band or crew looked after him. It would not be wise for him to go back to his apartment alone and maybe attempt again.

Having said that I guess I’ve been pretty naive about the band is the intense friction which may have lead him to quit. All I remember is Nicky saying he in December he began yo peak in his weirdness but seemed much better in January when they went to practice. Can anyone shed any more light on that or point me to article video about this.

I also keep thinking about the 2 weeks the car had been lived in. Did they take any fingerprints. I’ve said what I think and wonder if anyone will tell me their opinion.

I do some research on people’s breaking point. We all have one. For richey was it Bangkok, suicide attempt, just his mental state, his dog dying, last gig at the Astoria, something that happened in Jan, not being married or the 2 weeks spent with jo in the fall, dog dying, friend dying and manager. Perhaps it’s a combo but I believe he just snapped and could that have been prevented. Because one doesn’t typically happen when waking up thinking this will be my day. What do y’all think?

I can't take the book seriously. I've stopped even thinking about anything written in it. Take the school report. That would've been his first year at secondary school, I think. His grades were average so how did he get a scholarship to some fancy school? All the "extras" come from what sounds like gossip sessions between SHR, Rachel and Jo. Shit about being in love with Nicky. Shit about Richey having autism. The poor lad couldn't even go for a wee after eating without us being told he could've been a purger because his teeth became janky. Or it wasn't bulimia, it was drugs that caused it. Drugs he bought from dealers who were after him, maybe.

It really is a pile of shite. I'm going to sit in my own bubble and remember him as he was when I first read interviews, whether he was lying about things or not. I know intentions were good on Rachel's part, but my final opinion is that the book reeks. Fortunately it didn't even enter the world with bang, but with a whimper :)

he seemed to be the type of character who had to be the best at everything he tried otherwise he wouldn't try at all.

i don't think that being a 'professional musician' when you can't really play your instrument would help your self esteem. there was a lot of bluster and bravado about that back in the early days but i can only imagine it got tiring for him especially when he compared himself with james. there must have been some resentment there?

from what i've read of the book and from the sky arts documentary it seems the band was pulling more towards an everything must go style record before he disappeared. the fault lines were there and already growing. i always assumed that EMG was inspired entirely by the disappearance. it seems the groundwork for the album was already there with no surface all feeling, elvis impersonator, kevin carter and small black flowers.

i can't imagine it was much fun for him at the end.

the band that he had helped grow and form was growing away from him.

he couldn't just sack the band and join Nine Inch Nails on a free transfer.

Richey is Charlie Clouser is Richey

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-cont...wn-300x300.jpg

Not saying that that is an indication of truth, but Simon Price noted it too in Everything.

He was smoking 60 fags a day though. That makes your teeth look janky even if you use Eucryl Smoker's Toothpaste.

Maybe, but I do wonder sometimes how it's been treated as the definitive biography on the Manics when a lot of it was personal opinion and interpretation as well. It's fair enough that people are skeptic about the new book, but I had seen Everything revered by people before. Maybe the fact that internet forums etc. were relatively new when it came out is a factor, I don't know.

A lot of what’s said in Everything seems reasonable. Nicky says some of it isn’t right, but then he doesn’t have the monopoly on the truth either :lol:

True.

Or, wait...

:lol:

Pretty sure he admitted this with the title of the band's fifth album?

Through a time machine.

I don't think James needs a pass....I know what you're saying, I'm truly not having a go.....I think they and indeed anyone in similar situations are entitled to feel however they feel and not worry how it's interpreted by others or how you should or are supposed to feel because you can't control that. You wouldn't be human if you felt no anger and well it can all become about the person concerned but they effect those around them and that matters or should matter and too often gets overlooked, we're all human.....The band are in quite a unique position too being in the public eye and having their reactions analysed, that must be incredibly hard, incredibly....The failure to recognise that in the book is what particularly got to me.
And personally I feel it was the biggest tribute they could have paid him carrying on with the band

I can't recall the specific interview but yes they did say he seemed his old self in January but James has said that since then he's become aware that that is what can happen when someone has decided on something - be that to disappear, suicide, he maybe had made his mind up about something which is why he may have seemed more settled. But that's in hindsight at the time it must have just felt like one huge relief

Should he have gone on tour? I don't really think he should but that's not to blame the band as I don't think it was down to them at all .... the difficult thing is he was a free agent as ill as he was he'd been told it was up to him if he wanted to leave the hospital (though advised against) so it's hard...maybe he'd have been better staying with family but I don't know the family dynamics and it really was up to him. I feel the hospital should have made the decision to keep him in longer personally but that's just opinion worth no more or less than the next person's...I just wish the professionals would see the bigger picture not just the individual

I feel he had a plan of a kind, I don't think he just upped and left that day but I don't feel he had a clear plan and I think alone he really struggled and just couldn't come back once he'd set out on it...I'm of course not sure about anything, not sure if his plan was to take his life but I feel he struggled with that and in the end I personally feel that's what he did do but the fact he didn't do it straight away .... who knows what was going around his head and that must be something very hard for anyone close to him to accept....it's impossible to think about that and it not affect you so I really can't imagine how his sister feels and nor can I imagine how she can ever accept anything without proof. It seems impossible but somehow you need to find some kind of peace within yourself or how can you continue and as her brother he wouldn't have expected everything to be overshadowed by him I'm sure....maybe you need to reach back to some time before they were ill and remember that?

:)
That's the feeling in the book laid on with chips...or something. But I just don't get that. I don't think he was around long enough for the schisms in the band's direction to really take a hold on him but yeah absolutely he was NIN (love them:) and the rest of the band were how do we pull back from the Holy Bible abyss - an album they're rightly proud of but of course if you want a long term future and you want to keep your sanity it's not sustainable. To me I feel it wasn't just musical differences it was friend's seeing their friend fall apart and you can't keep exploring that mindset through your music without kinda falling into the abyss yourself so more complicated than just musical differences is what I mean

I'm not keen on Everything, I'm not keen on Mr Price but, well....let's keep things nice:)
I feel the band could do with a journalist taking on their biog who has no history with the band, isn't a fan, well, not a huge fan doesn't claim insider info...just a nice objective approach to the life and times

Book thoughts part 2

So Richey was jealous of every man Jo spoke to? Wow, yet he was talking to the press about groupies and getting a (possibly underage) handjob in Bancock? I don’t care if he made up his own rumours for effect, that is disrespectful and controlling. Poor Jo, and only a teenager at the time as well. I have heard that she was a strong woman and not a fan, but still, that relationship does not sound okay.

There’s a line in Drug Drug Druggy about Kurt and Courtney? Care to tell us which one? I’m surprised Symphony of Tourette wasn’t a premonition of Kurt’s death! And the Manics would have been huge in America if it wasn’t for Nirvana? I mean, maybe?

The quality of the writing is definitely getting worse as I read on!

I definitely second whoever said that Rosie Dunn should have been given the job, a tabloid crime writer who has been through treatment for alcohol use - it’d be great! Sad to read about the singer who was at The Priory too (I am pretty sure I have guessed who it is, actually I thought their identity was in the public domain), the insinuation that this person may have inspired Richey to do whatever it was that he did, that’s pretty hard (especially considering why he was there, and the particular struggles that the person I am thinking of has been through!)

Re an ASD diagnosis - this is close to my heart for personal reasons. I can see why the question arose in Rachel’s mind, but Richey had a diagnosis of BPD - that diagnosis accounts for his symptoms, and was made by doctors who assessed him. As to the bit about him going undiagnosed because he ‘learned female autism’, that is simply not how it works!

I’ve only got one chapter left, I think. The last chapter I read is just a waste of time. So Richey might have been planning a disappearance and left a load of clues... but some of the clues are about suicide as well... so we’ll brush over those. He might have been totally in control and planning every last move - or he might have been in the middle of psychosis, idk.

What bollocks!

The big difference with Everything, in my opinion, is that Simon Price acknowledges that his version is subjective, and it is clearly written out of respect and fandom. I found it an entertaining read.

Richard Fry, Richey’s friend from school who is discussed and quoted in the book, has filmed a video addressing how he was both portrayed in the book as well as being misquoted.

https://youtu.be/RrQmeRbzZIE

^ poor guy - and the one thing I forgot to mention about the penultimate chapter, was the bit about the authors being enthusiastically approached by people, who then declined to talk. If everyone you meet is an asshole...

Thank you for the link!

Slideling.... long time,no? I’ve been waiting for you to add to the discussion and glad u r back in general, cheers!

This woman is awful! Sharing stories about his treatment in The Priory? Some friend! I'm really disappointed that any of this was made public and this Rosie Dunn woman should be ashamed of herself for violating a patient's right to privacy regardless of whether that person is dead or not. It sets a dangerous precedent when people can't depend on the discretion of those they meet in therapy.


I only posted it as an example of them stretching and inventing the truth to paint a certain picture of Richey. I can't imagine he's the only one who participated that's pissed off about being misrepresented and misquoted or the stories they've shared being completely re-worked to fit a certain narrative. Apparently he's writing a book himself which I presume is about his friendship with RE. Best of luck to him!

They probably were willing to talk about him especially given his sister's involvement, but it's obvious the Manics and Co. weren't happy about this book so these "insiders" withdrew their participation.

^ yeah, fair point. I might have been reaching for the one or two interesting bits, as her contribution actually was new and insightful. But it is a gross invasion of privacy.

I’ve finished the book, the last chapter started out promisingly, but, like so many others, degenerated into ludicrous speculation. Murder? Where the hell did that come from? Ever heard of Ocram’s Razor? Sadly, Richey is almost certainly dead and buried in the sediment of the Severn. It isn’t beyond the realm of possibility that he did plan a disappearance and made it to Goa or wherever, but why speculate about a murder when there is more than enough evidence to suggest suicide?

I’m glad I read the book for myself, but I shall certainly be leaving a detailed one-star review on Amazon!

Oh, also, did anyone else get the distinct impression that Jo was not directly involved in this book? Which surely makes publishing her letters to Rachel an invasion of her privacy too?

Well, she did work for The S*n, so I wouldn't expect anything less.

She didn’t want to participate because, according to SHR, “she wanted to keep her memories of Richey to herself”, but if that’s the case, why allow personal letters he sent to be used if she wants to keep her memories of him to herself? As for Richey’s letters to her and quoting her letters to Rachel, apparently she gave them permission to use them, but the correspondences with Rachel seem to end in 1998. There was that part about what was in the box he left for her, but it’s hard to tell if it’s from a recent correspondence or before 1998. I got the impression she seemed kind of a little meh about what he left in the box (I actually dug the realness of her opinions relating to the books he left her. :D) and “from memory” kind of makes me think she either put it away for safe keeping or she no longer had it. According to the authors, they spoke with her when writing the book, but were not allowed to quote her nor were they allowed to see the box or it’s contents. Presumably she agreed to chat with them because of Rachel’s involvement so why wouldn’t she allow them to see the box? Like I said, she probably doesn’t have it anymore. I mean, if that’s the case, no one can fault her for moving on. I do wonder though if she’s read the book and if she, like Richard Fry, feels as though she was misrepresented. I did feel like the authors and Rachel kind of laid it on heavy about his heartbreak over losing his girlfriend and that her refusal to marry him (smart girl!) played a huge part in his decision to leave.

As for whether he’s dead or not, I think he’s likely dead, but as I’ve always maintained, I don’t think he jumped from the Severn. It’s too simple. The fact that his body has never been found is the stuff of legends and myths which is something he probably intended. If he had jumped from the Severn, there’s no guarantee that his body wouldn’t have washed ashore. I think he went somewhere else, but has likely since died.

True, but to claim you’re friends with the person and then to betray their trust like that? I mean, the guy had crippling trust issues too, but who cares about that because he’s probably dead? I’m still shocked that his sister allowed any of this to be published regardless of her motives.

I must be an idiot but...

Rosie Dunn was a fellow patient and friend. To me she's the only one in the book who speaks of him as a real friend would, you get a true feel for the person from her and not once does she pass comment on friends or family, she says nothing and makes no assumptions about what was behind his illness nor does she reveal anything personal he may have said within group therapy sessions or to her direct and as for being a Sun journalist it seemed to surprise her too that he was open and friendly with her but they clearly clicked and he didn't make snap judgements about a person based on their job or background because in the hospital it doesn't and shouldn't really matter and to him it clearly didn't. I'd be more surprised if he found an affinity with a broadsheet journo......She gives, directly and indirectly, a rare insight into the man and she's refreshing on a stage full of bitchiness and school playground politics and half thought out ideas....

Well, the blind item I mentioned the other day on Crazy Days and Nights gossip column has apparently been solved.

https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2...vealed-36.html

Who knows if it is true. Would be very very interesting.

Haha, good spot but christ the chances that Richey is now a hit ghost writer (including music apparently!) feels a bit slim.

Any guesses for his chain of 'fairly popular' songs over the last decade ? Something off the Greatest Showman maybe ? Aghh what's the name again of that George Ezra song about anorexia and american foreign policy ?

Beyonce's Lemonade. ♥

It's rather unusual for the Manics to be mentioned in any US gossip sites. This was an odd one. I think the average reader of the site is American and wouldn't know much about the band. Don't know if there were any stories about the band in the Daily Mail lately - where this could have been pulled from.

Some of the stuff on the site is true, some is fiction.

It's a curiosity.

A really popular US based True Crime podcast recently covered Richey's case and (they're by no means the first)

If he's popping up on US podcasts, it could well be some listeners are deciding to fill in the blanks, so to speak. But yeah, that's weird. And bullshit.

Decided that I’m keen to see what’s in this book, but I don’t want to buy it new and line the pockets of the knobhead who wrote it.

Anyone got a copy that they’re willing to sell?

The Tragic Street Preachers?
 

Stumbled upon this, not sure if its been shared here yet? 4 part discussion on Richey with his 'former best friend' Richard Fry...it really is something...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eWyLx1oGJU

Wow... I mean... that just looks terrible without even watching it.

As for the book (to answer Lee, above), it's interesting enough. There's a lot of "but what if this happened instead?" kind of writing throughout without any backing up, but as an insight into Richey's early life, mostly from his sister and friends, it's pretty interesting. Think of it as - 1st half = early years of Richey biography, 2nd half = disappearance and a lot of theorising without a lot of evidence.

It's not complimentary to the band, and there are some cringey moments where you think "ouch, that's a bit harsh," so there seems to be some undercurrent of dislike and distaste.

It's worth a read. And if you need to clear your conscience about paying for it, think of it as helping raise awareness about a missing person - and therefore raising awareness of other missing people.

Ha ha ha! Ah fuck, I have been a Richplanet viewer for a while as well.
"How did someone who can't play get a record deal?".
Because he happened to be in a band that had the guitar talents of James Dean Bradfield alone, let alone Sean and even Nicky wasn't the novice he made out.
Aaaarghhh I'm going to have to watch this now. Fuck I think I've got Richard Hall on Facebook. I have previously tried to engage in conversation with him and his replies were exactly how you hear him talk in the opening...
What you see is what you get? Despite not following the protocols of conversation of getting to the point then explaining that point!

EDIT: "and a gay" haha! Oh maybe we can get Dr. Judy Woods to write a big picture book called "Where Did Richard D. Hall's Integrity Go?"

I got ten minutes in and couldn't take it anymore (especially the claim that they seemed to be making that Jo Cox isn't dead).

Can you summarise the conclusions?