[raven]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Not sure what the book says, but I'm pretty sure even the specifics were already out there (perhaps in Everything), I have something in my head about him being found in his flat after a day or two without communication (I won't go into further detail for fear of triggering). I'm not sure how it's discussed in the book mind you, I'm pretty much against pornographic descriptions of self harm.

I remember around the time it was very vague with allusion to, as you mention, him being found at his flat in a bad way after a day or two of it being difficult to get hold of him. I remember they specifically stayed away from any mention of attempted suicide. I remember because I found it odd because I couldn't see any other reason why he would have been taken straight into a psychiatric unit. You pretty much have to kill yourself or another to be admitted....another utter failure of our mental health system leaving people until the last minute.
Maybe the point though is that he himself never referred to the incident as such which seems fair now to conclude was because he didn't want to talk about it to the press or maybe to admit to it (call me Sherlock). Which is understandable. People seemed to hold him up as some kind of spokesperson for self harm, for anorexia, for self abuse. You can call them the 'cult of Richey' but I always found something a little snide in that response too to be blunt. Though it was a perception I always struggled with really because to me he didn't seem like someone who'd been through it but more someone who was going through it and to expect help from such a person whether you know them or whether it's from a distance they're bound to fail you - kind of like the analogy of the drowning man - he can't save you if you're drowning too nor give you an objective perspective beyond 'we're fucked' essentially. (having said that I do appreciate he had insight to offer and I think it was quite something how he could write about the personal through the eyes of another ie 4st7lbs. It is remarkable. But he was never going to be anyone's saviour. The illness and problems he had wrecked him, to my mind, they got in the way of all he had to offer and speaking just personally I've always resented the dwelling on that side of him. Cult of Richey or not I thought it reduced him, took away from him)

All that aside.... it was mentioned in the police report. And maybe the band have referred to it as a suicide attempt since. I can't recall but then I can't see a reason why they wouldn't now really. And it is important to put that in the book I feel but sure as you say you don't need to lay out all the actual physical details of the incident itself though nothing said so far suggest that that has been the case.

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

Do you mean Lennon or Richey? My memory is dicey on the details about Lennon, but I believe his father abandoned the family when he was a baby and his mother became involved with another man and I don't think her new BF wanted him around so Mimi and her husband took him in and raised him.

I meant Richey...though I was puzzled over the aunt and uncle reference I remember Richey saying something about spending some of his childhood raised by his grandma but didn't elaborate....I think that was the time he was also taken along to church.... he sounded very close to her although never elaborated on why he spent some of his childhood there rather than at home.....money issues? His parents just too young?

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

Obviously not surprised that they discussed it, I'm surprised at how much they divulged. I mean, they don't go into details about what he said in therapy or anything like that, but they spoke with people who observed him in there and his routine. I just don't think something like that should be discussed publicly unless the patient has given permission or was open about it. He limited what he said to the press and kept to the general concerns like how poorly mental healthcare is funded in a public system, dispelling the myths associated with mental illness, etc - but he stopped short of discussing what he personally went through and I think that's important to remember. That being said, this is my personal opinion which clearly not everyone shares. If his sister felt it was the right thing to do then that's her call, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to question why she would.

Sure and I remember one of the interviews with SHR (was it the 3am one?) where she spoke of being frustrated a little about what they could and couldn't divulge regarding his time in hospital which surely is only another indication of how inexperienced/naive she is? I can understand that they might want to be open about Richey's treatment and that is important to the purpose of the book whilst at the same time I do appreciate your questioning of that and the unease.
It's difficult too I feel because when it comes to reporting observations...whose observations? They need to be mindful of the privacy of patients around him and when it comes to staff again mindful of who it is talking to them. From previous reports it felt like if they got an answer they didn't like they'd go to someone else until they got an answer they did or at least one that was skeptical towards the one they didn't want to hear. It's frustrating because clearly mental health is a key factor here and there are many issues and concerns that could and should be raised without any actual need to go into the personal specifics of Richey's case. I'd be interested to know for example if the approach taken then is the same that would be taken now? The problems around diagnosis; the care available once a patient is discharged, the differences between public and private care (both I feel let him down spectacularly)... the support offered - or not offered (not) - to family and friends.....
It's such a shame the vitriol thrown around at the band - his friends - when they had all that professional care right there and it failed. And if it failed him it fails others.....that's really the key issue in all of this. The help or lack of that's there for the individual concerned and for those around them

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

My attraction was the same, but full disclosure, I was 15 and thought he was hot. Kind of still do actually. Lol!

Oh he definitely was. If a little too aware of it ha.
The last few months though he just looked so ill, so drawn, it was upsetting to see

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

The assumption that Richey wearing those PJs to look like a concentration camp victim is not a new one though. That's been around since the 90s. I don't think he ever disclosed to anyone why he was wearing pajamas and the book doesn't give much insight either. The anecdote about Rob Stringer is pretty much a non-event and I'm not sure why it was included except to show how the big bad record company was treating this suffering genius so appallingly. In fact, Rob Stringer probably fairs the worst in this book. He's really made out to be a money hungry prick.

It has been made before but to be fair usually by half witted journos...if I may be a little bitchy cos it's hard to keep that side completely under control at times .... people can suggest it as people will always suggest anything they damn well please but I feel they're doing him a great disservice and don't even seem to realise the offensiveness of the parallel
Sure, who knows the reason, we can all argue till the cows come home and set off out again in the morning.... but as he spoke of shaving his head as being about getting rid of vanity, so to speak, and the grief over the loss of his dog then maybe the pj's were worn though the same line of thinking...all is vanity, who cares anymore about image, who can be bothered, a retreat of sorts, an all is vanity statement. Or, maybe, he just couldn't be bothered getting dressed that day

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

I think they may have a had a limited stock. You should just get a digital copy.

Wash your mouth out E-books are the great satan to me I'm afraid...as if all this wasn't bad enough ha. I'll go browse e-bay...or should I? I still can't decide if I want to read it but no I can't go electronic...that's just not a book to me. Is this actually worthy of the name book did you say? Well....

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

It's interesting to note though that the professionals who examined him said that his wounds were superficial and they believed it was more of a cry for help than an actual attempt.

To me this just makes me wonder what the fuck with regards to the professionals.

Originally Posted by vaiden

can any one tell me what a health farm is? a spa?a retreat? I remember Price quoted James when saying something about Richey crying after each tour and had to be sent to a health farm for a bit. Does anyone know what a health farm is

Have you heard GN'R's cover of Down on the Farm? That should help It is a retreat yes of a kind, not a hospital, nowhere you're referred to as such, and the emphasis is more on getting healthy...not about therapy or treatment just diet, exercise....a New Year's holiday if you like.....

Or it could be a farm for elves