The new clues that suggest missing Richey staged his own dissapearance

[vaiden]

Sorry me again but I wanted to know if Price was the one who said Richey had started self injuring ,drinking and not eating?

does anyone else remember that and/or where it came from ? I know Nickey said he would search for new wounds during the tour following his "treatment" last European tour Denmark (I think) and was
ticked off when he saw it. Nickey said they talked for hours about it. I also read he was drinking again . Does any one else remember this? I have yet to start reading the book as I am so conflicted.

I do remember Stuart Ballie (I don't think that it is spelled correctly) also saw fresh wounds when he was interviewing the band. He saw him crying when he was being pictured alone.

[raven]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Not sure what the book says, but I'm pretty sure even the specifics were already out there (perhaps in Everything), I have something in my head about him being found in his flat after a day or two without communication (I won't go into further detail for fear of triggering). I'm not sure how it's discussed in the book mind you, I'm pretty much against pornographic descriptions of self harm.

I remember around the time it was very vague with allusion to, as you mention, him being found at his flat in a bad way after a day or two of it being difficult to get hold of him. I remember they specifically stayed away from any mention of attempted suicide. I remember because I found it odd because I couldn't see any other reason why he would have been taken straight into a psychiatric unit. You pretty much have to kill yourself or another to be admitted....another utter failure of our mental health system leaving people until the last minute.
Maybe the point though is that he himself never referred to the incident as such which seems fair now to conclude was because he didn't want to talk about it to the press or maybe to admit to it (call me Sherlock). Which is understandable. People seemed to hold him up as some kind of spokesperson for self harm, for anorexia, for self abuse. You can call them the 'cult of Richey' but I always found something a little snide in that response too to be blunt. Though it was a perception I always struggled with really because to me he didn't seem like someone who'd been through it but more someone who was going through it and to expect help from such a person whether you know them or whether it's from a distance they're bound to fail you - kind of like the analogy of the drowning man - he can't save you if you're drowning too nor give you an objective perspective beyond 'we're fucked' essentially. (having said that I do appreciate he had insight to offer and I think it was quite something how he could write about the personal through the eyes of another ie 4st7lbs. It is remarkable. But he was never going to be anyone's saviour. The illness and problems he had wrecked him, to my mind, they got in the way of all he had to offer and speaking just personally I've always resented the dwelling on that side of him. Cult of Richey or not I thought it reduced him, took away from him)

All that aside.... it was mentioned in the police report. And maybe the band have referred to it as a suicide attempt since. I can't recall but then I can't see a reason why they wouldn't now really. And it is important to put that in the book I feel but sure as you say you don't need to lay out all the actual physical details of the incident itself though nothing said so far suggest that that has been the case.

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

Do you mean Lennon or Richey? My memory is dicey on the details about Lennon, but I believe his father abandoned the family when he was a baby and his mother became involved with another man and I don't think her new BF wanted him around so Mimi and her husband took him in and raised him.

I meant Richey...though I was puzzled over the aunt and uncle reference I remember Richey saying something about spending some of his childhood raised by his grandma but didn't elaborate....I think that was the time he was also taken along to church.... he sounded very close to her although never elaborated on why he spent some of his childhood there rather than at home.....money issues? His parents just too young?

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

Obviously not surprised that they discussed it, I'm surprised at how much they divulged. I mean, they don't go into details about what he said in therapy or anything like that, but they spoke with people who observed him in there and his routine. I just don't think something like that should be discussed publicly unless the patient has given permission or was open about it. He limited what he said to the press and kept to the general concerns like how poorly mental healthcare is funded in a public system, dispelling the myths associated with mental illness, etc - but he stopped short of discussing what he personally went through and I think that's important to remember. That being said, this is my personal opinion which clearly not everyone shares. If his sister felt it was the right thing to do then that's her call, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to question why she would.

Sure and I remember one of the interviews with SHR (was it the 3am one?) where she spoke of being frustrated a little about what they could and couldn't divulge regarding his time in hospital which surely is only another indication of how inexperienced/naive she is? I can understand that they might want to be open about Richey's treatment and that is important to the purpose of the book whilst at the same time I do appreciate your questioning of that and the unease.
It's difficult too I feel because when it comes to reporting observations...whose observations? They need to be mindful of the privacy of patients around him and when it comes to staff again mindful of who it is talking to them. From previous reports it felt like if they got an answer they didn't like they'd go to someone else until they got an answer they did or at least one that was skeptical towards the one they didn't want to hear. It's frustrating because clearly mental health is a key factor here and there are many issues and concerns that could and should be raised without any actual need to go into the personal specifics of Richey's case. I'd be interested to know for example if the approach taken then is the same that would be taken now? The problems around diagnosis; the care available once a patient is discharged, the differences between public and private care (both I feel let him down spectacularly)... the support offered - or not offered (not) - to family and friends.....
It's such a shame the vitriol thrown around at the band - his friends - when they had all that professional care right there and it failed. And if it failed him it fails others.....that's really the key issue in all of this. The help or lack of that's there for the individual concerned and for those around them

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

My attraction was the same, but full disclosure, I was 15 and thought he was hot. Kind of still do actually. Lol!

Oh he definitely was. If a little too aware of it ha.
The last few months though he just looked so ill, so drawn, it was upsetting to see

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

The assumption that Richey wearing those PJs to look like a concentration camp victim is not a new one though. That's been around since the 90s. I don't think he ever disclosed to anyone why he was wearing pajamas and the book doesn't give much insight either. The anecdote about Rob Stringer is pretty much a non-event and I'm not sure why it was included except to show how the big bad record company was treating this suffering genius so appallingly. In fact, Rob Stringer probably fairs the worst in this book. He's really made out to be a money hungry prick.

It has been made before but to be fair usually by half witted journos...if I may be a little bitchy cos it's hard to keep that side completely under control at times .... people can suggest it as people will always suggest anything they damn well please but I feel they're doing him a great disservice and don't even seem to realise the offensiveness of the parallel
Sure, who knows the reason, we can all argue till the cows come home and set off out again in the morning.... but as he spoke of shaving his head as being about getting rid of vanity, so to speak, and the grief over the loss of his dog then maybe the pj's were worn though the same line of thinking...all is vanity, who cares anymore about image, who can be bothered, a retreat of sorts, an all is vanity statement. Or, maybe, he just couldn't be bothered getting dressed that day

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

I think they may have a had a limited stock. You should just get a digital copy.

Wash your mouth out E-books are the great satan to me I'm afraid...as if all this wasn't bad enough ha. I'll go browse e-bay...or should I? I still can't decide if I want to read it but no I can't go electronic...that's just not a book to me. Is this actually worthy of the name book did you say? Well....

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

It's interesting to note though that the professionals who examined him said that his wounds were superficial and they believed it was more of a cry for help than an actual attempt.

To me this just makes me wonder what the fuck with regards to the professionals.

Originally Posted by vaiden

can any one tell me what a health farm is? a spa?a retreat? I remember Price quoted James when saying something about Richey crying after each tour and had to be sent to a health farm for a bit. Does anyone know what a health farm is

Have you heard GN'R's cover of Down on the Farm? That should help It is a retreat yes of a kind, not a hospital, nowhere you're referred to as such, and the emphasis is more on getting healthy...not about therapy or treatment just diet, exercise....a New Year's holiday if you like.....

Or it could be a farm for elves

[Aestivate]

Has anyone borrowed it from a library?

[Routine Builder]

Originally Posted by raven

I remember around the time it was very vague with allusion to, as you mention, him being found at his flat in a bad way after a day or two of it being difficult to get hold of him. I remember they specifically stayed away from any mention of attempted suicide. I remember because I found it odd because I couldn't see any other reason why he would have been taken straight into a psychiatric unit. You pretty much have to kill yourself or another to be admitted....another utter failure of our mental health system leaving people until the last minute.
Maybe the point though is that he himself never referred to the incident as such which seems fair now to conclude was because he didn't want to talk about it to the press or maybe to admit to it (call me Sherlock). Which is understandable. People seemed to hold him up as some kind of spokesperson for self harm, for anorexia, for self abuse. You can call them the 'cult of Richey' but I always found something a little snide in that response too to be blunt. Though it was a perception I always struggled with really because to me he didn't seem like someone who'd been through it but more someone who was going through it and to expect help from such a person whether you know them or whether it's from a distance they're bound to fail you - kind of like the analogy of the drowning man - he can't save you if you're drowning too nor give you an objective perspective beyond 'we're fucked' essentially. (having said that I do appreciate he had insight to offer and I think it was quite something how he could write about the personal through the eyes of another ie 4st7lbs. It is remarkable. But he was never going to be anyone's saviour. The illness and problems he had wrecked him, to my mind, they got in the way of all he had to offer and speaking just personally I've always resented the dwelling on that side of him. Cult of Richey or not I thought it reduced him, took away from him)

Maybe because Richey's managed to make something positive out of it with his writing and lyrics. That's not to say there are those who are interested solely in the aestethics, but speaking for myself, Richey's interview quotes and lyrics gave articulation to something rarely discussed behind closed doors let alone in public. Seemingly he managed to find strength in weakness and make something beautiful out of something wretched, and in the end for some of us, hope. Hope that horrible things churning inside could be used for creation rather than self destruction. I know it turned out terminal for Richey in the end, but his intellect and art shine a light in some of my darkest days still.

This is said from an angle of getting to know his work after he had died. If he was alive today, I'd rather he be getting help, sleeping well and waking up happy rather than having reasons to write JPFL 2.

[vaiden]

I do like the theory someone suggested above about Richey not wanting to admit to an attempt as I guess he may have seen that as a weakness? I have always thought what he said about his mind trying to subject his body to more than it could handle was such bullshit explaining nothing. This seemed as if he had a nice pat tolerable rehearsed reason for discussing what happened. So much so that it sounded like he practiced saying it before he had to answer for his actions. I was WTF! That sounds almost a non answer or at least with me it never made any sense at all. It did however become somewhat of a mantra to him and the band to say it so well rehearsed. But again this maybe was an easier way of coping than saying what had happened and perhaps that should have been the end of the discussion. But as a Richey fan girl maybe he did not want anyone to emulate him, or he didn't want to discuss it with others all while trying to explain it to himself. And he had/has every right to not want "us" to know particularly if he was trying to put the attempt as an accident.

Still no takers on the fact that it was reported he was drinking, not eating, and SIB before January 95? or what happened during the two weeks till they found the car? or the "staged toll ticket, passport and prozac" in his apartment. I wonder if he ever even took the meds for at least on a trial period as they don't begin to work until anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks This should have been explained to him. Like I said earlier the emergence of the time direction of the toll have so captivating to me, I could go on and on for theories. It would have been nice to know some of this while writing an essay in college lol. And as an American IN PSYCHOLOGY I WANT CLOSURE DAMMIT! I am glad the band has learned to accept there may never be an answer (a healthy way of thinking) but I want the truth lol

[vaiden]

I do like the theory someone suggested above about Richey not wanting to admit to an attempt as I guess he may have seen that as a weakness? I have always thought what he said about his mind trying to subject his body to more than it could handle was such bullshit explaining nothing. This seemed as if he had a nice pat tolerable rehearsed reason for discussing what happened. So much so that it sounded like he practiced saying it before he had to answer for his actions. I was WTF! That sounds almost a non answer or at least with me it never made any sense at all. It did however become somewhat of a mantra to him and the band to say it so well rehearsed. But again this maybe was an easier way of coping than saying what had happened and perhaps that should have been the end of the discussion. But as a Richey fan girl maybe he did not want anyone to emulate him, or he didn't want to discuss it with others all while trying to explain it to himself. And he had/has every right to not want "us" to know particularly if he was trying to put the attempt as an accident.

Still no takers on the fact that it was reported he was drinking, not eating, and SIB before January 95? or what happened during the two weeks till they found the car? or the "staged toll ticket, passport and prozac" in his apartment. I wonder if he ever even took the meds for at least on a trial period as they don't begin to work until anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks This should have been explained to him. Like I said earlier the emergence of the time direction of the toll have so captivating to me, I could go on and on for theories. It would have been nice to know some of this while writing an essay in college lol. And as an American IN PSYCHOLOGY I WANT CLOSURE DAMMIT! I am glad the band has learned to accept there may never be an answer (a healthy way of thinking) but I want the truth lol

[handbag]

Originally Posted by vaiden

Still no takers on the fact that it was reported he was drinking, not eating, and SIB before January 95? or what happened during the two weeks till they found the car? or the "staged toll ticket, passport and prozac" in his apartment. I wonder if he ever even took the meds for at least on a trial period as they don't begin to work until anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks This should have been explained to him. Like I said earlier the emergence of the time direction of the toll have so captivating to me, I could go on and on for theories. It would have been nice to know some of this while writing an essay in college lol. And as an American IN PSYCHOLOGY I WANT CLOSURE DAMMIT! I am glad the band has learned to accept there may never be an answer (a healthy way of thinking) but I want the truth lol

Richey said this in his Music Life interview (23.01.95)

It seems you have such a clear idea of what you want. But last summer you seemed to lose track.

"I haven't had a drop of alcohol since last summer. Until then, especially since I left college, I'd been drinking an enormous amount. I didn't eat properly when I was drinking, and my vanity made me hate the idea of having a big ugly beer belly. I didn't want to be fat. So I was always drinking and I felt sick all the time. I was able to read, but I couldn't tidy the house, clean the bath, watch a film, I couldn't do anything else."



Has this experience, including the stay in hospital, changed you?

"I don't feel much different. I just realise I've got more time. 'Cos my lifestyle has become 'healthy.' I've quit the alcohol and everything. I can now use the whole day. I used to start drinking as soon as I woke up, so the day was shorter. Some people maintain that all the best writing is done by alcoholics and junkies. That's all crap: the more addicted you are, the less time you have to write. You just lose sight of your motivations and intentions. I wasted whole days. I'd wake up and feel so sick that I couldn't do anything. I lost day after day."

[handbag]

Originally Posted by vaiden

I have always thought what he said about his mind trying to subject his body to more than it could handle was such bullshit explaining nothing.

TRIGGER WARNING!

This sounds like a Dear Diary or Tumblr post, but I understand this and I've spoken with others who've been in the same frame of mind. Maybe nothing to do with Richey's motives for saying it, but at a certain point a person can feel so little respect for the body and life that they purposely do things that could lead to death without the actual intention of suicide.

A scenario would be taking a pill, then another, then another...just to see how it feels and wondering if it'll kill you and not bothering if it did. Same thing with cutting. Someone can cut deep at the places where they know there could be blood loss to the extent they pass out and maybe bleed to death, just because there's a morbid curiosity if the body could take it, and if you die in the process it doesn't really matter.

It's difficult to put into words, but it's a kind of compulsion. It's not a suicide attempt, but something that you do could take your life but you just don't care. It's not even a cry for help because in that low you feel there's no hope whatever help is offered.

[Routine Builder]

Can we avoid the graphic detail please? Just a personal preference, it sort of messes with my head a bit.

Also, from personal experience, the above description sounds correct wrt non-intentional suicide.

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by rosetree

...though most of the comments in the thread state the authors blame the band mostly for his problems, though why just the band?

Neither Rachel Edwards nor the authors blame anyone for his problems. His sister, like everyone else, is at a loss as to why he developed these issues. She does mention that it's possible he could have suffered a trauma and there was some talk about unresolved grief. He did also seem to have a strained relationship with his father so it's speculated that that may have been a catalyst too. Ultimately though, she doesn't know and she certainly doesn't blame the band for his illness.

Originally Posted by vaiden

Before I take any view to Richey appearing anti sematic

OMG! He does not appear antisemitic at all! I'm sorry if my post gave you that impression! I was just reacting to the author's interpretation of the lyrics specifically James asking Richey to edit the first draft of the lyrics of TIHOE. The authors seem to think he was trying to be deliberately provocative with some of the lyrics in the first draft which is why James told him to rewrite it. He probably was, but that coupled with the other stuff just pissed me off for the reasons I mentioned. Bottom line is, I probably should have skipped that analysis because I knew I would likely perceive it as inflammatory, which I did.

Originally Posted by vaiden

James, the more cagey between What had happened with Richey than Nickey or Sean, told an interviewer on camera that when he went to hospital, it was for an attempted suicide

He did say it around the time of JFPL, I think. He was sitting at a dressing room table as I recall. I think he realized he kind of said something he shouldn't have because he looked uneasy. Hearing someone say it was a suicide attempt and reading the details of what went down are two different things. It's shocking and the aftermath was sad as f**k!

I won't go into the details of what happened (Stuart Baille mentioned it as a rumor in the article he did with the band right after Richey got out of hospital. The rumor was exactly what went down), and given what has been confirmed, there can be no ambiguity anymore; it was a suicide attempt.

Originally Posted by raven

I meant Richey...though I was puzzled over the aunt and uncle reference I remember Richey saying something about spending some of his childhood raised by his grandma but didn't elaborate....I think that was the time he was also taken along to church.... he sounded very close to her although never elaborated on why he spent some of his childhood there rather than at home.....money issues? His parents just too young?

Oh, ok! I wasn't sure! Lol! Yeah, Richey lived with his paternal grandmother in her house along with his mum, dad and sister until the age of 13. His grandmother apparently had an enormous influence on him. His sister mentions that a few psychologists suggested his self-harming may have been the result of unresolved grief over her death. It's believed his self harming started shortly after her funeral.

Originally Posted by raven

Oh he definitely was. If a little too aware of it ha.

That's the thing though, I don't think he did. I think in his mind, he really thought himself repulsive which is probably why he was constantly obsessed with his physical appearance. I think that's also why he liked hanging with the young groupies that fawned over him because they probably, in an altogether messed up way, built up what little self-esteem he had. Honestly, it's pretty apparent when you read his letters to friends, particularly females he was interested in, he really didn't like himself at all. I feel like I understand a lot more now why he didn't become involved seriously with anyone. He was tormented by the thought that they would find someone better because he wasn't good enough. Poor bugger!

Originally Posted by raven

but as he spoke of shaving his head as being about getting rid of vanity, so to speak, and the grief over the loss of his dog then maybe the pj's were worn though the same line of thinking...all is vanity, who cares anymore about image, who can be bothered, a retreat of sorts, an all is vanity statement. Or, maybe, he just couldn't be bothered getting dressed that day

That's actually a very likely reason. I tend to lean towards the attention theory though. By that period, it doesn't seem like anyone other than his family really wanted to be around him. I don't know if he was unintentionally pushing them away or they just couldn't be around him because his behavior was so erratic. Nicky said he would be fine one minute and the next he was playing games that he knew would hurt them like crumbling a chocolate bar into a bowl right in from of them.

Originally Posted by raven

Wash your mouth out E-books are the great satan to me I'm afraid...as if all this wasn't bad enough ha. I'll go browse e-bay...or should I? I still can't decide if I want to read it but no I can't go electronic...that's just not a book to me. Is this actually worthy of the name book did you say? Well....

Haha! I forgot most people with a penchant for literature are purists when it comes to books. I'm slightly indifferent, personally. I do love traditional books, but I prefer the convenience of having several books neatly tucked away on my iPad.

Originally Posted by raven

To me this just makes me wonder what the fuck with regards to the professionals.

Well yeah! In fact, the book talks about how pissed off he was that he didn't feel he was getting the proper help, but I don't know how much of that was him thinking he knew better or they genuinely did bugger all for him. I share the same belief as you and some of the others here that mental health care is still lacking in 2019 so I'm sure it was even worse back then. I don't recall, but does anyone know if Cognitive behavioral therapy was being offered back then? From my own experience, I was able to ditch the meds after a few years of doing CBT and I know that for the past 15 or so years it's been widely used to treat behavioral conditions like self-harm, Borderline Personality Disorders, anorexia, substance addiction, etc. I'm just wondering if he would have had access to it. From the book, it doesn't sound like it.

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Richey's interview quotes and lyrics gave articulation to something rarely discussed behind closed doors let alone in public.

I think that's why he's highly regarded by a lot of people including musicians/lyricists like Thom Yorke and Pete Doherty. He wasn't afraid to draw attention to the stuff most people keep silent about, particularly on THB. That's why it sucks to think he thought people would only remember him for his self harm.

Originally Posted by vaiden

Still no takers on the fact that it was reported he was drinking, not eating, and SIB before January 95? or what happened during the two weeks till they found the car? or the "staged toll ticket, passport and prozac" in his apartment.

According to Rachel, when they found the car, there was an empty bottle of wine in it. I think he relapsed while they were on tour though. One of the journalists covering the gigs was in a hotel room Richey shared with Nicky on the THB autumn tour and there was a half full bottle of vodka on the bedside table. Richey apparently remarked to him, "I'm an alcoholic now". I believe that story is in the Rob Jovanovic book. As for the two weeks on the road, no clue!

After taking a few days to properly digest what I read, I actually don't think Richey was toxic at all! I think he was just deeply troubled and it's a shame that circumstance (era, environment, etc) prevented him from getting help until it was almost too late (not that he would have fared any better if he had, but there's a possibility it could have helped him). I'm also glad that Rachel Edwards has opened up about his struggles even if I still do think some things should have been edited for privacy's sake. I hope speaking out about what he went through helps in dismantling the stigma associated with mental illness. I also hope that it brings some kind of closure for her and that she is able to resolve her differences with the band. She's done a lot to not only help change legislation in Britain for the families of missing people, but also, by using her brother's notoriety, has brought a lot of attention to the countless people who've gone missing in Britain and the families they've left behind. I don't think she's been given the recognition she deserves for her efforts.

[raven]

Originally Posted by Aestivate

Has anyone borrowed it from a library?

I'd like to but they don't have it neither....I could request a copy. I might do that...I'm still trying to work out if I want to read it that's the thing. I could request one and by the time that turns up I may have made up my mind. There's a plan.

Originally Posted by vaiden

I do like the theory someone suggested above about Richey not wanting to admit to an attempt as I guess he may have seen that as a weakness? I have always thought what he said about his mind trying to subject his body to more than it could handle was such bullshit explaining nothing.

Originally Posted by handbag

This sounds like a Dear Diary or Tumblr post, but I understand this and I've spoken with others who've been in the same frame of mind. Maybe nothing to do with Richey's motives for saying it, but at a certain point a person can feel so little respect for the body and life that they purposely do things that could lead to death without the actual intention of suicide.

.....

It's difficult to put into words, but it's a kind of compulsion. It's not a suicide attempt, but something that you do could take your life but you just don't care. It's not even a cry for help because in that low you feel there's no hope whatever help is offered.

I can see that. I can see also why precisely because of that the aftermath can seem forever unresolved because even when you know for sure the person has ended their life circumstances mean you can never resolve the question of their intent. I remember, to speak of another rock God, the news of Jeff Buckley's death being particularly hard because that seemed to be a classic case of what you describe. It also brings to mind the biography of 'Stuart' by Alexander Masters....the circumstances of his death didn't seem entirely clear as to whether he had become set on ending his life or just got past taking care.
It depends how you look at it but it's the nature of depression isn't it, in its worst state to get to that state ...it's... I don't know.... we tend to think of suicide as a deliberate act that's planned but it can also be the end result of an illness of depression. You've not entirely consciously chosen to end your life but that's the result of your illness.

To me, I feel Richey's response - the idea that he was stronger, that suicide is the weaker option...I don't think he was bullshitting though he clearly didn't want to talk about it it's a natural response but I think it is/was a dangerous attitude because it disregards the nature of the illness - you may think you're stronger but the illness can turn out to be. If that makes sense. You're actually not in control, far from it and that is a really hard thing to face up to

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

That's the thing though, I don't think he did. I think in his mind, he really thought himself repulsive which is probably why he was constantly obsessed with his physical appearance. I think that's also why he liked hanging with the young groupies that fawned over him because they probably, in an altogether messed up way, built up what little self-esteem he had. Honestly, it's pretty apparent when you read his letters to friends, particularly females he was interested in, he really didn't like himself at all. I feel like I understand a lot more now why he didn't become involved seriously with anyone. He was tormented by the thought that they would find someone better because he wasn't good enough. Poor bugger!

Hmmmn I still think he knew he wasn't at all bad looking He wasn't averse to the camera But that's not the same as feeling you're worthy of love, the surface is only superficial in many ways. And, I don't know, but so much of his behaviours seemed to be about self control, he might dismiss the not eating as not wanting to put on weight whilst he was drinking so much, doing stupid numbers of press ups etc...it's not vanity that though is it, it's gone way beyond it's a form of self control, trying to reach some sort of ideal....you'll never reach.
I have wondered if being nicknamed Teddy as a kid helped....I'm not saying that's the root cause or assigning blame but just when/if as a child you're made aware of your appearance especially at or around the same time you start to be aware that appearance matters (yep I know it really doesn't but Society doesn't agree....) it can get in your head and take root. Not that that alone would explain everything....or we'd all be in serious trouble ha...but lots of things can come together, tangle up, coincide, get fixed in your head...
He was vain in short but not because he thought he was God's gift to erm fans or something....not that that was entirely about vanity when it opens you up to the kind of people who would offer a set of knives as a gift...how degrading is that. He should have told them to go fuck themselves.

I do think many of us would be much better if we could only learn to say No more often and to say go fuck yourself not quite as often but have that in reserve... and say it loud.....

[rosetree]

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

Neither Rachel Edwards nor the authors blame anyone for his problems. His sister, like everyone else, is at a loss as to why he developed these issues. She does mention that it's possible he could have suffered a trauma and there was some talk about unresolved grief. He did also seem to have a strained relationship with his father so it's speculated that that may have been a catalyst too. Ultimately though, she doesn't know and she certainly doesn't blame the band for his illness.

I didn't suggest they were making the band feel responsible for Richey's illness. There were some suggestion about criticising the band about Richey's health in the book? manifesting the problems, though he suffered before joining the band. I read the msppedia articles from 1995, which shed light in interviews, questions and differences from the time.

[Glass Angel]

So... my copy has arrived. First thoughts on flicking through - I wasn’t expecting most of the ‘archive’ to be school essays from 1981. Chosen because of ‘ominous ‘ references to the Severn Bridge. You know, the famous bridge that links Wales and England, and which looms pretty large in the imagination of anyone who lives around the Cardiff area...

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by raven

Hmmmn I still think he knew he wasn't at all bad looking He wasn't averse to the camera But that's not the same as feeling you're worthy of love, the surface is only superficial in many ways. And, I don't know, but so much of his behaviours seemed to be about self control, he might dismiss the not eating as not wanting to put on weight whilst he was drinking so much, doing stupid numbers of press ups etc...it's not vanity that though is it, it's gone way beyond it's a form of self control, trying to reach some sort of ideal....you'll never reach.
I have wondered if being nicknamed Teddy as a kid helped....I'm not saying that's the root cause or assigning blame but just when/if as a child you're made aware of your appearance especially at or around the same time you start to be aware that appearance matters (yep I know it really doesn't but Society doesn't agree....) it can get in your head and take root. Not that that alone would explain everything....or we'd all be in serious trouble ha...but lots of things can come together, tangle up, coincide, get fixed in your head...
He was vain in short but not because he thought he was God's gift to erm fans or something....not that that was entirely about vanity when it opens you up to the kind of people who would offer a set of knives as a gift...how degrading is that. He should have told them to go fuck themselves.

I do think many of us would be much better if we could only learn to say No more often and to say go fuck yourself not quite as often but have that in reserve... and say it loud.....

Yeah, I don't know. All his friends and stuff seem to think it had something to do with him having acne for most of his teen years, but I'm sure there was a lot more to it than just skin issues. It usually is with these kinds of body issues and self hate. The Teddy Edwards thing is interesting though. I'm not British so I don't really know where the reference comes from, but maybe it did have an impact on him at a formative age.

I'm sure he did know that young girls found him attractive and he played that up for his own gain. I'm not excusing that kind of behaviour, just noting that given his negative body image, he may have gotten a boost to his ego from seeing how much these people wanted to be with him. It's also probably a power thing too. I'm sure that plays into it as well because it usually does. Not surprisingly though, the book only mentions groupies a few times and both instances are extremely dismissive (tbh, I'm shocked they were mentioned at all! Lol!). There's also no mention of the young teenage fans he used although she does reference them as groupies (again vague and dismissive) before beginning another tiresome interpretation of one of the songs on THB, this time 'Yes". Speaking of his contact with teenagers, IMO, the most disturbing thing in the book isn't the subtle and sometimes blatant slagging off the band gets, its actually the attempt to normalize and romanticize a relationship between a man in his 20s and a teenage girl he met when she was 15/16. They even go so far as to say, he wanted a relationship so he "kept her on the periphery" when she was 17 (oh! How nice of him! Lol!). I just hope this woman didn't waste her teen years refusing to date other people and just sitting by the phone waiting for him to call or write her a letter. Basically just waiting for him to make up his mind about dating her meanwhile he's sleeping with other people. I mean, I get why they had to include his relationship with her and it's pretty clear that this may have been the only type of romantic relationship he was able to have (it reads like the most significant time they spent in each other's company was for 2 weeks in the fall of '94), but the way the author's have positioned it seems grossly out of touch with what's going on today given the contempt people have for men in positions of power that have and continue to take advantage of vulnerable teens. As a fan, this is the side of Richey I've always found very difficult to reconcile with.

Originally Posted by rosetree

I didn't suggest they were making the band feel responsible for Richey's illness. There were some suggestion about criticising the band about Richey's health in the book? manifesting the problems, though he suffered before joining the band. I read the msppedia articles from 1995, which shed light in interviews, questions and differences from the time.

Oh sorry, it read like you were saying that the author's blamed the band for his issues. No, they don't criticize the band over Richey's health. There's some suggestion that they may have alienated him starting around the time of the Thailand trip, but who's to say he didn't isolate himself from them? I didn't get the sense that the authors or Rachel believed they could have done more for him or anything like that or that his time in the band compounded his problems which was actually surprising to me. Others may have gotten a different impression though. As far as I can tell, the bulk of the issues concerning the band and Richey seem to stem from the belief that he was the leader of the Manics who got them noticed (he 100% did! I don't think anyone least of all the remaining guys would say otherwise), but they grew tired of his "vision" and were starting to pull away from him after THB was recorded and this alienation and desire to move away from their formulaic sound, thus pushing him even further down the ranks, became more apparent after THB was released and was a commercial flop. How much of that is fact or just down to Richey feeling slighted because he was going thorough a psychological crisis, depends on what you choose to believe.

Originally Posted by Glass Angel

So... my copy has arrived. First thoughts on flicking through - I wasn’t expecting most of the ‘archive’ to be school essays from 1981. Chosen because of ‘ominous ‘ references to the Severn Bridge. You know, the famous bridge that links Wales and England, and which looms pretty large in the imagination of anyone who lives around the Cardiff area...

Yep! The "archive" is a massive let down. The letters and pics are great though. And yes, the book is leading and pushing the author's theories left right and centre! Wait unitl you see how many references they make to good old Aunt Bessie. Lol!

[handbag]

Richey's drawing of Ace Garp in 2000 AD wasn't the first prize winner of "a nationwide competition". It was that issue's chosen readers art. Not to be picky, but these inaccuracies really do no favours if we're supposed to believe everything written in the book when they're biggin' Richey up as a grand prize winner when he wasn't. (Cute drawing, though!)