Marlon J.D.

[still_unfashionable]

Originally Posted by theperfectcat

"Bare floors, clean white walls, no window curtains, nothing but centrals... [dialogue cut].. With no luxuries, no ornamentation- utter simplicity...[dialogue cut]... but also clean, as clean as a rifle."

"And they're never lonely... [dialogue cut]... And sometimes I envy them."

Here's the full relevant bit from the script (Brando plays Major Weldon Pemberton and Liz Hurley is his wife, Leonora):

PEMBERTON: *knocks ornament off shelf* Oop-
LEONORA: Oh, Weldon! Poor Rufus. I've had him ever since I was in boarding school. Now you've broken him. After all these years...
P: I'm sorry, Leonora, it's just all this clutter is-
L: What's the matter with clutter? I like it.
P: Well, I could learn to live without it. Bare floors, clean white walls, no window curtains, nothing but centrals...
L: Well if that's the way you feel about it, why don't you resign your commission and start all over again as an enlisted man?
P: Of course, you're laughing at it, but there's much to be said for the life of men among men. With no luxuries, no ornamentation- utter simplicity. It's rough, and it's coarse, perhaps, but it's also clean- as clean as a rifle. There's no speck of dust, inside or out, and it's immaculate in its hardened (?) fitness. [mumbling]... chivalry... and they're seldom out of one another's sight. They eat and they train and they shower and they play jokes, go to the brothel together. They sleep side by side. The ??? room offers many lessons in courtesy and how not to give offense, and they guard the next man's privacies over their own. And the friendships, my lord. Friendships form that are stronger than-stronger than the fear of death. A-and they're never lonely. They're never lonely. And sometimes I envy them. Well, goodnight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_82CI...49F3BA&index=9 (from 7:20).

The rest of the lyrics (except for a couple of lines and that pesky "J.D.") are taken from an earlier piece of dialogue, where Anacleto is describing the horsewhip incident to Mrs. Langdon:

LANGDON: What did Major Pemberton do?
ANACLETO: He stood like a statue. He did not defend himself. She struck him time and again, as hard as she could, right across the face. His face was already torn from the riding accident, which made it all the more horrible.
L: Was she drunk?
A: Everybody thought so, but she wasn't. I should know; I was the barman. I dispensed the drinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHpiO...49F3BA&index=6 (from 6:00, if you want to see the beating as well).

The rest of the film is on youtube if anyone is really interested in watching it. I encourage you to do it if you have the time- it starts a little slowly, and there are some camp moments, but other than that, it's pretty good. I'd suggest that the J.D. has something to do with the themes Richey has chosen to highlight with what he picked out of the film- namely ideas of discipline, puritanism, dignity, morality and withstanding assault. Since J.D. Salinger eschewed "luxury, ornamentation" to live his life as a recluse, he could indeed have been what Richey was referring to while "juvenile delinquent" also suggests the military applying moral discipline. As with "P.C.P.", it's possible the abbreviation means more than one thing.

In addition, though the song might appear to glorify the above things (linking them with Christ's martyrdom through the picture opposite in the booklet) and endorse Pemberton's views, note that the film/book is in large part about the repression of his sexuality (and that of others) and the strife this causes (first he beats his wife's horse, unable to find any other outlet, and later he shoots Private Williams). There seems to be a contrast in Pemberton between his disciplined masculinity (which attracts him to Williams and the other privates) and the effeminate behaviour (slathering his wife's cold cream onto his face) he tries to repress. The book and film are quite critical of such repression, which ensues from conflict between desires and ideals. The same contrast is sort of seen below, as Richey tries to reconcile his admiration for puritanism and discipline with his left-wing ideology (this is from his third to last interview, with Simon Price, and he also discusses Archives of Pain after this):

SP: "You deride self-obsession. Yet on the notes which accompany "4st 7lbs" you say "Anorexia = Vanity"- just another form of self-obsession."
R: "I don't understand the contradiction myself, but in Ecclesiastes there's a line: "all is vanity", and I do really believe that..."
[...]
SP: "It sounds as though the flipside of vanity is an inferiority complex."
R: "That's what it is. I think so. Linked with a "victim mentality", maybe."
[...]
R: "But say if I was in a pub and someone attacked me, and I knew I'd done nothing wrong, I would quite happily take a beating without doing anything, and feel really superior. I would never hit somebody back if they hit me. If I'd done something wrong it's different. But if I was minding my own business, I could easily take a kicking. I'd think, "I don't give a fuck 'cos you are scum, you're way down there and I'm above you 'cos I can take it." It's a bit biblical, "turn the other cheek" and all that, but I like people like Gandhi. And when I see people get picked on, when I see them vainly throw a punch back, half-heartedly, I think they've lost. Any chance they had is gone because they've lowered themselves."
[...]
SP: "I can't figure out your thoughts on puritanism. Sometimes it seems to disgust you, but surely anorexia is an extreme form of puritanism?"
R: "Oh yeah. Again, I think my views are completely flawed. My idea of purity is completely split down the middle. It's in denial with its own logic. The idea of not eating food, the idea of a political prisoner, say the Maze Block [which housed Irish Republican prisoners] going on hunger strike when I was young, I thought it was so beautiful, the best thing anyone could do. It's all about injuring yourself to a certain extent. But for a reason, for an absolute reason. That's why I liked Bobby Sands [IRA martyr and Republican icon who died during the Maze hunger strike]. That's why I thought he was a better statement than anything else that was going in at the time, because it was against himself."

Liz Hurley? Oh dear God.

[theperfectcat]

Originally Posted by still_unfashionable

Liz Hurley? Oh dear God.

My mistake, I honestly have no idea where that came from!

[bristarman]

Originally Posted by Eskimo Veggie

I like to pretend it stands for Jason Dean (Heathers).

Sorry to rehash an old topic but I was just reading a fairly terrible book on teen marketing (Branded by Alissa Quart) and came across this passage that I immediately associated with Marlon JD, but which may be stretching it a bit:

In Heathers, the kids attend Westerburg High, named after the ashen face lead singer of the band The Replacements, and the high school killer J. D.'s name derives from a wry contraction of "juvenile delinquent" (and perhaps also refers to James Dean and J. D. Salinger)".

I've never seen the film (although I'm a big Replacements fan so I might check it out just because of the tribute). I see it's also got a song called 'Teenage Suicide - Don't Do It" on the soundtrack which sounds a laugh.

[lucy92]

the film is really great. you should see it ASAP!

[3MACE3]

hope they keep it in the setlist for future gigs....

[franny]

We can hope, they need a good few songs that you can really jump to like Marlon and NSAF

[the_soft_machine]

i so (heart) this thread

my favourite song on the album, and now i know what film(s) to track down

[Emperor Tomato Ketchup]

It is on youtube. Brando is always good, the crazy, messed in the head lune.

[starstruck]

having just got the special edition and having another listen to this, i think i might know another film that Richey saw that this song was inspired by. there's an all but forgotten 60s Brando film called The Chase that i saw years ago. hell of a cast - Brando, Redford, Angie Dickinson, Robert Duvall.

in it Brando plays a Sheriff who, without wanting to give too much away, seems the only voice standing up for the town's presumed juvenile delinquent (oh, escaped convict according to imdb), the very young Robert Redford. there is a scene where Brando gets one hell of a beating, if i recall indeed he is "beaten across the face with a horse whip".

hell of a film, last saw it some 20 years ago. will try and find a copy, but i would be pretty sure that the start of the song is a reference to this.

[ZiZi]

Originally Posted by leericketts

having just got the special edition and having another listen to this, i think i might know another film that Richey saw that this song was inspired by. there's an all but forgotten 60s Brando film called The Chase that i saw years ago. hell of a cast - Brando, Redford, Angie Dickinson, Robert Duvall.

in it Brando plays a Sheriff who, without wanting to give too much away, seems the only voice standing up for the town's presumed juvenile delinquent (oh, escaped convict according to imdb), the very young Robert Redford. there is a scene where Brando gets one hell of a beating, if i recall indeed he is "beaten across the face with a horse whip".

hell of a film, last saw it some 20 years ago. will try and find a copy, but i would be pretty sure that the start of the song is a reference to this.

Last few seconds of this part of the movie

[manicspain]

so see so see...

[Symmanine]

Maybe it stands for Jesus Domine...
Isn't there a picture of Jesus on a cross next to the lyric in the deluxe version?

[starstruck]

whoops, forgot to check in on this. i would hazzard a guess that Richey maybe saw both films; the one i mentioned has Redford as a Juvenile Delinquent (J.D. ?) in it that Brando defends in the manner the lyrics suggest.

the lyrics to the song strike me as being relevant to both The Chase and the clip linked from You Tube?

[Frankster]

Originally Posted by the_soft_machine

i so (heart) this thread

Just found out now, one album later, that the Wire himself doesn't know what J. D. stands for. Check it out at 8 minutes and 5.

[Nature's Discontent]

But he might have worked it out now...?