Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #646  
Old 07-03-2019, 22:39
vaiden's Avatar
vaiden vaiden is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: there's a lot to be said for nowhere
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
Wasn't the one-year passport theory also put forward by Simon Price in "Everything"? I distinctly recall him writing about it somewhere. So, I hope SHR isn't passing this theory off as something new. Anyway, I seem to remember they could even be picked up at Post Offices, which is where David Cross claims to have seen Richey. If that was him, there could be a multitude of reasons for him being at a post office. But it's worth bearing in mind.


I've never had a solid stance on what became of Richey. I just don't know. I can't even say what theory I favour more. Again, I just don't know. But, since this discussion began, I've found myself wondering more and more about the two weeks he seemed to have spent just driving around and living in his car. You could say he was just revisiting old haunts he loved. But two weeks for that? In a country the size of Wales? It'd take a day or two, at most. As someone said earlier, it seems like he was waiting for something. A one-year passport could well have been it.
Me Me Me!! Vaiden. I just find the time baffling because of the toll ticket, items "arranged". in his house and especially given the 2 week time frame living in his car. Was he undecided, was he waiting for something. did someone else park the car? The
significanse of him/someone putting the steering wheel lock ?

It has also occurred was he giving away towards the end because he was telling them not to worry? I'm just really gone and had to get rid of things? As velocity girl described I keep pondering these things over and over.

Last edited by vaiden; 08-03-2019 at 06:36.
Reply With Quote
  #647  
Old 07-03-2019, 23:48
Finn's Avatar
Finn Finn is offline
HBIC
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
Also, turns out Rob Stringer isn't Jewish so just gets more bizarre but that's Chinese Whispers I guess. What's pretty ironic is that the 'source' might have been the fact that he received an award from the UJA Federation at which tongue in cheek jokes were made by a few people including the man himself and his daughters about the fact he wasn't one of the tribe, Someone saw UJA and put 2 and 2 together and made 5 (What? In-depth research there? No, just a quick Google, ha)
In reference to the book, it says that Rob Stringer had words with Richey during their last stint in the studio. It talks about concerns about the bands next step and financial losses. It adds that part of the problem/discussion might have been Richey's shaved head and striped PJ's look- 'the elephant in the room' that seemed to suggest 'a concentration camp vibe' (the books descriptions, not mine.) It specifically states that this might of offended Stringer because of Jewish family members. It's that mix of comments about money, control, holocaust imagery and Jewish family members that some readers have found dogwhistley. Others haven't.
Reply With Quote
  #648  
Old 08-03-2019, 01:38
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
Yes, you're right! That book was apparently in the box. It was actually some of the videos he left - can't remember which one(s) exactly - that were not included in the list in the book. I find it interesting though that Jo wouldn't let the authors look at the box (this was discussed earlier in the thread) and it's contents as well as refusing to go on record now. It's been stated that she wanted to keep her memories of Richey to herself, but if that's the case, why allow them to quote her at all? I suspect that she either doesn't remember much of that period anymore or she doesn't hold the same views of him and his situation as she did then
The box may have been long recycled and the contents scattered. Certainly the videos would be long redundant now. Maybe she's settled with a family of her own. You might offer a couple of letters, not wanting to shut anyone out so to speak but I can understand a reluctance to take a full part especially if that's her past now. From what's been said about the book it sounds like they've given maybe too much prominence to what they do have from her and to long ago conversations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn View Post
In reference to the book, it says that Rob Stringer had words with Richey during their last stint in the studio. It talks about concerns about the bands next step and financial losses. It adds that part of the problem/discussion might have been Richey's shaved head and striped PJ's look- 'the elephant in the room' that seemed to suggest 'a concentration camp vibe' (the books descriptions, not mine.) It specifically states that this might of offended Stringer because of Jewish family members. It's that mix of comments about money, control, holocaust imagery and Jewish family members that some readers have found dogwhistley. Others haven't.
Ah, thank you. To me it sounds like poor research and supposition to deflect from any criticism of Richey....which seems to be the book in a nutshell.....
I don't think there's anti-semitism there I think they're just trying to brush any suggestion that his image was belittling the experience of the holocaust victim, turning their experience into a fashion statement away by suggesting Stringer was particularly sensitive to that owing to his family. Rubbish clearly.
Is there any suggestion there to be sensitive about? I didn't see any 'concentration camp vibe' (?) just a man who looked very unwell. Again the writer seems to create a problem almost and then deflect it by turning criticism elsewhere unless of course it's all about trying to find fault and blame. Suggesting Richey was being told essentially he no longer fitted in with the band's future. The bands own accounts of Richey at that point paint him as happier, more relaxed than he'd been in months which at the time they were pleased about and only on reflection much later on did it make them wonder if whatever he went on to do he'd decided already by that time
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #649  
Old 08-03-2019, 01:53
Finn's Avatar
Finn Finn is offline
HBIC
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
unless of course it's all about trying to find fault and blame. Suggesting Richey was being told essentially he no longer fitted in with the band's future. The bands own accounts of Richey at that point paint him as happier, more relaxed than he'd been in months which at the time they were pleased about and only on reflection much later on did it make them wonder if whatever he went on to do he'd decided already by that time
That was very much my sense of the author's intentions.
Reply With Quote
  #650  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:00
vaiden's Avatar
vaiden vaiden is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: there's a lot to be said for nowhere
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn View Post
That was very much my sense of the author's intentions.
Why the long wait? why 2 separate passports? Was he trying to say something but couldn't so he left things to the band and family? Maybe he wanted them to know he was still alive and not to lose hope? He just needed time for himself? or was he nice because he knew he was going to commit suicide and thought others would get despondent if everyone to discuss who sounds like a person that is ready. Maybe grasping at straws...

OR

1of3 people have admitted to suicidal idealization and more often than not because they have already designed to leave and attempted to attempt before and that the meds gave clarity and perhaps the strength to make up one's mind?? I personally don't think prozac med is the best along with treatment when in fact that is not entirely true as there are so many new meds available and coupled with good therapy should decrease depression
Reply With Quote
  #651  
Old 08-03-2019, 08:18
Finn's Avatar
Finn Finn is offline
HBIC
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,200
When I said, "That was very much my sense of the author's intentions," I was just replying to
Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
unless of course it's all about trying to find fault and blame.
Reply With Quote
  #652  
Old 08-03-2019, 18:08
River Boy's Avatar
River Boy River Boy is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post



Possibly! lol! I don't really see what the big deal is though. Antisemitism is absolutely on the rise again so understandably a lot of people are hyper sensitive to anything that might have antisemitic undertones.
Completely disagree, especially as far as the UK is concerned.

Racism gets talked about in the news because of the 'keyboard warriors' who jump on any context they can and, because society is so sensitive to proving it isn't racist, it's like we're all being required to walk a tightrope of prejudice, with idiots and idealists making up the judge and jury.

Most people I know have hardly met any Jewish people. I've never heard a single bigot whinge about Jews in the pub or in the football stands; they have other go-to sources for their prejudice.

There is one notable Jewish community - Tottenham - in the whole country, where there has been tensions. But one community does not characterise the country's feelings.

Outside of Tottenham it's a complete non-story.

(Or rather I should say outside of Tottenham and the Labour Party it is a non-story. But I don't think that extremists who love Communist Russia and tie themselves to the conspiracy theory that Jews secretly run the world really represent the country either. It's just a quirk that one of them happens to have become a party leader - completely by accident.)

Damn! I am now wading in on the debate. Never said a word about this my entire life.
Reply With Quote
  #653  
Old 08-03-2019, 19:35
rosetree rosetree is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: leeds
Posts: 418
I think politically it's like a deviation from the real issues, that are discarded because it seems they want to argue more about who is the most correct.

I haven't read the book yet, but Richey wore the striped pyjamas for Holocaust remembrance day on 25th January, before he went missing, which is mentioned in an article from October '95. He's obviously also empathising the Holocaust in THB.
Reply With Quote
  #654  
Old 08-03-2019, 20:46
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 5,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn View Post
In reference to the book, it says that Rob Stringer had words with Richey during their last stint in the studio. It talks about concerns about the bands next step and financial losses. It adds that part of the problem/discussion might have been Richey's shaved head and striped PJ's look- 'the elephant in the room' that seemed to suggest 'a concentration camp vibe' (the books descriptions, not mine.) It specifically states that this might of offended Stringer because of Jewish family members. It's that mix of comments about money, control, holocaust imagery and Jewish family members that some readers have found dogwhistley. Others haven't.
Thank you for setting the record straight regarding what the book actually said. I can see now why some people were questioning it. Also "concentration camp vibe"? That's a bit of a loosey goosey description.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaiden View Post
Why the long wait? why 2 separate passports?
We don't know that he had two passports. That's just a theory being thrown out there which is supported by pretty much nothing. He could have intended to renew his passport, but didn't have time before leaving for the States. The driving around bit is suspect, but it may have been him contemplating things. I do sort of believe the story about him being seen at that newsagent (was it at a train station or bus stop?) in Newport by one of Lori Fiddler's friends. I think that's possibly the most credible sighting of him in that two week period. Then again, if he was on the lam, why was he having brief conversations with people who recognized him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by River Boy View Post
Completely disagree, especially as far as the UK is concerned.
Well, that's your opinion and while I respect it, I don't share it. I'm not British, but I do subscribe to a few British news agencies online and the comments sections are usually pretty rife with antisemitic jargon that goes well beyond merely criticizing Israel. Yesterday, the Times posted a piece on how the Holocaust is being lost to history and among the same old tired comments about Zionists, one Londoner's comment struck me the most. He wrote something to the effect of, "They bring on antisemitism themselves by supporting Israel". Um, ok! Others were more concerned with playing the atrocity Olympics with their "whataboutisms" then acknowledging the holocaust at all. The same is true here as well and from what I can tell, in the US and the rest of Europe. While antisemitism may not be prevalent in Britain or where I'm from, it is becoming noticeably more pervasive and not just through rhetoric. Hate crimes against Jews are on a steady rise as well. Just because you aren't affected by something personally or in your community doesn't mean it isn't happening. That's a little like a white person telling a person of colour that because you aren't impacted by racism, it doesn't exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosetree View Post
I haven't read the book yet, but Richey wore the striped pyjamas for Holocaust remembrance day on 25th January, before he went missing, which is mentioned in an article from October '95. He's obviously also empathising the Holocaust in THB.
He wore it far longer than just that day. His last interview with the Japanese press was on Jan 23rd I believe (he picked up the reporter at the train station wearing the PJs under his coat) and there are stories of him dressed like that showing up in London and now it seems he was dressing that way during the recording sessions too. He more than likely was dressing like that to sympathize with the victims, but I think he also probably saw himself as a victim on their level as well which is perhaps why Stringer maybe had words with him, if that story is actually true. The man was clearly mentally ill and going through a shit time though so you can't really judge him too harshly, as far as I'm concerned.
Reply With Quote
  #655  
Old 08-03-2019, 21:18
usagainstyou's Avatar
usagainstyou usagainstyou is offline
Bored of being bored
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nineteen Eighty-Four
Posts: 1,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
Well, that's your opinion and while I respect it, I don't share it. I'm not British, but I do subscribe to a few British news agencies online and the comments sections are usually pretty rife with antisemitic jargon that goes well beyond merely criticizing Israel. Yesterday, the Times posted a piece on how the Holocaust is being lost to history and among the same old tired comments about Zionists, one Londoner's comment struck me the most. He wrote something to the effect of, "They bring on antisemitism themselves by supporting Israel". Um, ok! Others were more concerned with playing the atrocity Olympics with their "whataboutisms" then acknowledging the holocaust at all. The same is true here as well and from what I can tell, in the US and the rest of Europe. While antisemitism may not be prevalent in Britain or where I'm from, it is becoming noticeably more pervasive and not just through rhetoric. Hate crimes against Jews are on a steady rise as well. Just because you aren't affected by something personally or in your community doesn't mean it isn't happening. That's a little like a white person telling a person of colour that because you aren't impacted by racism, it doesn't exist.
Here's a recent article from The Guardian:

Antisemitic incidents in UK at record high for third year in a row

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...security-trust
__________________
Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #656  
Old 08-03-2019, 21:20
Bonesy's Avatar
Bonesy Bonesy is offline
Knowlede Is Power
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Radio Free Carrickfergus.
Age: 40
Posts: 1,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by River Boy View Post
Completely disagree, especially as far as the UK is concerned.

Racism gets talked about in the news because of the 'keyboard warriors' who jump on any context they can and, because society is so sensitive to proving it isn't racist, it's like we're all being required to walk a tightrope of prejudice, with idiots and idealists making up the judge and jury.

Most people I know have hardly met any Jewish people. I've never heard a single bigot whinge about Jews in the pub or in the football stands; they have other go-to sources for their prejudice.

There is one notable Jewish community - Tottenham - in the whole country, where there has been tensions. But one community does not characterise the country's feelings.

Outside of Tottenham it's a complete non-story.

(Or rather I should say outside of Tottenham and the Labour Party it is a non-story. But I don't think that extremists who love Communist Russia and tie themselves to the conspiracy theory that Jews secretly run the world really represent the country either. It's just a quirk that one of them happens to have become a party leader - completely by accident.)

Damn! I am now wading in on the debate. Never said a word about this my entire life.
That's more Stamford Hill than Tottenham. The same guys are all around up near Mill Hill too.
Reply With Quote
  #657  
Old 08-03-2019, 22:39
handbag's Avatar
handbag handbag is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 268
The Manchester Jewish community get stick and have done since I can remember. The Orthodox Jews especially because they "dress funny". If it's not full on racial slurs, it's casual racism. Source: I lived in Cheetham Hill.

This happens a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #658  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:01
Routine Builder's Avatar
Routine Builder Routine Builder is offline
Hold me she said, Love me to Death
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,816
*member who complains about antisemitism being mentioned ends up derailing the thread onto anti semitism. Sigh, people complained when I wanted to talk about Richey’s lyrical style....

Note 1: All I'll say on the matter is racism of all types is on the rise, not just anti-semitism. It isn't a whataboutery argument but people seem to forget that it was a certain party that encouraged a certain xenophobic mindset and that's expanded to include minority citzens who have roots going back decades if not centuries. People seem to feel more relaxed about expressing their prejudices. This country feels like a simmering kettle at the moment.

Note 2: It's not really for Goyems (speaking as one) to decide whether or not Jewish people are feeling more threatended in today's society. I would also remind people that jews are more sensitive to this stuff because of the attempt to wipe them off the world. They feel it, that' what matters.
__________________


Stand back, I have political powers!

Last edited by Routine Builder; 09-03-2019 at 08:06.
Reply With Quote
  #659  
Old 09-03-2019, 10:14
Son of Stopped's Avatar
Son of Stopped Son of Stopped is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Wirral (Been saying it wrong, didn't realise there was a THE )
Age: 49
Posts: 16,630
Wanted to make this point ages ago but always pressed the back button but fuck it, I think whatever antithingy from the book could be seen as an attack on the band supporting the BDS. Or that could be my BS.
Back to thread, nothing more to offer but however bad things really are, there's worse monsters in Westminster!
Reply With Quote
  #660  
Old 09-03-2019, 10:52
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 5,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Stopped View Post
Wanted to make this point ages ago but always pressed the back button but fuck it, I think whatever antithingy from the book could be seen as an attack on the band supporting the BDS. Or that could be my BS.
Back to thread, nothing more to offer but however bad things really are, there's worse monsters in Westminster!
When did the Manics publicly come out and support the BDS movement? I know that walking ego Roger Waters mentioned they supported it a few years back, but I don’t ever recall them publicly saying they do.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.