The Manics and John Cale

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Can't say I particularly like what I've heard of M:FANS. The original was so desolate and cold whereas M:FANS sounds bright and noisy....

The original was desolate and cold...and lacking in anything even approaching a tune. I mean, I like desolation ('The Holy Bible' is my favourite album) but original album is a bit a trial to listen to. Actually, it isn't M:FANS that shows it up but the acoustic demos of 'Chinese Envoy' and 'Thoughtless Kind' which are included as extras at the end of the 'Music' re-issue - they're both much better than anything on the album itself (and much better sung too).

'M:FANS' really has to be thought of as a totally different album to 'Music For A New Society' - it's more of a follow-up to 'Shifty Adventures In Nookie Wood'. Several of the songs only really have the lyrics in common ('Close Watch' for example). I wouldn't call it 'bright' incidentally, it's mostly dirty and glitchy - and catchy too. I suppose the gospel version of 'If You Were Still Around' is pretty bright, but it's also beautiful that it makes both of the other studio versions utterly obsolete. The closing triumvirate of 'Close Watch', 'If You Were Still Around' and the previously unreleased 'Back To The End' justify the album on their own for me.

[Routine Builder]

Can't say I'm a fan of Cale's last two albums, just a matter of taste really. I just find Music for a new society haunting, it really stands out against the rest of his catalogue. I'd dare say it's the first album where he experimented to the same degree as those early VU days. That version of Close Watch is the most affecting thing he's written, I honestly can't bear what was done to it on MFANS to be honest. The raw emotion seemed to be lost amongst the production. Don't get me started on his VU covers with Pete Doherty and Carl Barat...

Oddly enough, I always wondered if the Manics would ever rerecord Generation Terrorist. That's an album that would benefit from years of album making experience.

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by Phil C

You've probably all seen but Cale has been added to both All Tomorrow's Parties events, and I have a ticket to the day he's playing Manchester! Can't wait. I missed out on Iggy Pop tickets but I'll still be seeing one absolute legend.

I also found his 'Honi Soit' album on vinyl last month. Not his absolute best but some good stuff, especially 'Riverbank'.

I got both 'Music For A New Society' and 'M:Fans'. I have to say that the latter is brilliant, and easily stands up as a work in its own right rather than just as a companion to the original version. I love the re-workings of 'Close Watch' and the second version of 'If You Were Still Around', and the 'new' track 'Back To The End'.

Going to that myself too, bloody hell it's next week isn't it?

Still a lot of his stuff I haven't heard, only about five albums I'm familiar with but Honi Soit is one of them. Fear is great, too. You hear that he performed Velvet Underground And Nico in full in Paris a couple of weeks ago? I'm hoping (perhaps naively) that he keeps at least a couple of tracks from that for this. It'd be rude to turn up at a festival called All Tomorrow's Parties and not play All Tomorrow's Parties...

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

Going to that myself too, bloody hell it's next week isn't it?

Not any more unfortunately - he's pulled out. This is his statement from his Facebook;

'regrettably, @therealjohncale's ATP shows now canceled.
"we did our best to believe in the organizers, in the end,
they let us all down" - jc'

The festival's web site still lists him as 'Just added' and I've checked the T&Cs which basically say the line-up can change, so I won't even be able to get my money back as the festival itself is still on, but I was only interested in seeing him really.

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by NasalScarecrow

He pulled out due to a dispute with the piss poor organisers, then the whole thing got pulled. Shame, would love to see him again, plus Drive Like Jehu.

I must admit the only reason I've heard of Drive Like Jehu is that they were curating this festival.

Still, if Cale wasn't going to be there, getting my money back was the best outcome for me, shame for the people who actually wanted to see the other acts too though.