Why are Nicky's lyrics in the EMG, TIMT and KYE eras his best?

[Flint]

Originally Posted by tzb

'And on the street tonight an old man plays / With newspaper cuttings of his glory days'?

Amazing, poignant and incredibly powerful in the context of the whole song. The entire song has an element of hopelessly getting swept away by the events around you; and one day all you have left from a once wonderful life are just old paper clippings.

Also despite the direct lyrical references to fascists etc I wonder how many non-fans realise Tolerate is actually written about the Spanish Civil War? In my very limited experience not that many.

Which isn't a bad thing. It allows for personal interpretation and gives the lyric space to breathe, instead of bluntly hammering a THIS IS POLITICAL/HISTORICAL message. It makes for a far stronger lyric.

Tolerate is the best thing the band has ever written in every single way possible, including lyrically.

As for ADFL being 'obtuse', it isn't exactly saying anywhere it's reflecting on UK's social class issues and goes about the whole thing fairly vaguely until you're clued on the matter; I would have never seen it in such a way personally if I hadn't eventually read about it. The fact that it isn't spelling the whole thing out bluntly is, once again, better for it.

[tzb]

Originally Posted by Flint

Which isn't a bad thing. It allows for personal interpretation and gives the lyric space to breathe, instead of bluntly hammering a THIS IS POLITICAL/HISTORICAL message.

Absolutely, but that wasn't my point - CL was describing what I think is a fairly literal song as obtuse relative to a song the intended meaning/significance of which is obscure to most people, which strikes me as pretty much the definition of an obtuse lyric.

As for whether it's a stronger lyric because it's open to an extremely wide interpretation... well, I don't agree.

Originally Posted by counterlanguage

Tolerate has more emotional connection, and it gets to the root of what Wire's trying to say, unlike ADFL which had its emotional and logical core removed in the editing process.

And most people just think it's about getting pissed; at least with Tolerate, people understand the basic moral message.

Tolerate has less emotional connection for me, but whatever floats your boat. The line I quoted is as concise a summary of Wire's thought as is necessary and the entire chorus of ADFL states the same thing in a totally unmistakable way. 'To wear the scars, to show from where I came'... doesn't sound like the emotional or logical core were removed to me.

I think it's a huge myth "most people" think it's purely about getting pissed, I've certainly not encountered anyone who thinks so.

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by tzb

Also despite the direct lyrical references to fascists etc I wonder how many non-fans realise Tolerate is actually written about the Spanish Civil War? In my very limited experience not that many.

Likely not many. I didn't even know what it was about until I read an article several months after the album's release discussing the meaning behind the lyric. I suppose if I were Welsh I would have picked up on some of the references or maybe not...

Nicky as a lyricist has always been a bit hit or miss for me I'm afraid. I don't think there's a single album by the band post Richey where I can say definitively that all the lyrics are great. Sometimes he writes with insight and maturity, sometimes he writes like it’s a high school poetry assignment.

[Flint]

I'd hardly call ADFL a literal lyric at all.

[counterlanguage]

Originally Posted by Flint

I'd hardly call ADFL a literal lyric at all.

Yes, it's very disjointed to me. And it takes some work to actually explain some of the lines - e.g. what has 'we are not allowed to spend' which do not literally fit into the theme of the lyric.

[tzb]

Wow, you really can't see the significance of that in the context? OK.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by tzb

As for whether it's a stronger lyric because it's open to an extremely wide interpretation... well, I don't agree.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying every lyric has to be incredibly vague to open up for millions of different explanations: it's good to have an aim for something specific, be it an emotional reaction, a story or a statement. Rather, I find Wire an incredibly awkward writer when he tries to spell things out clearly and push forth one specific message. When he goes less literal, capturing the emotion and effect of what he's trying to say rather than just blurting out the thing, it results in far stronger lyrics. Tolerate, or ADFL for that matter, aren't chained to the ground by one specific thing what's being said - instead, the lyrics have enough freedom of expression to allow other people to analyze the central subject of the lyrics through how it resonates for them as well. Both are strong lyrics and allow for analysis both in and out of their respective contexts.

[Bathtub]

ADFL is the greatest song about Wales ever, I see it as a Welsh anthem rather than a working class one or it having all that much to do with class in general.

[River Boy]

Originally Posted by Bathtub

ADFL is the greatest song about Wales ever, I see it as a Welsh anthem rather than a working class one or it having all that much to do with class in general.

Seems to have universal themes to me; don't think they got into Welsh stuff until TIMT.

For me, though EMG has some great lyrics they are also fairly straightforward, the only body of work Nicky's done that really stands out as great is Lifeblood.

That's not so much a criticism of other work, I just think it took him a few albums to learn to express himself as the sole lyricist and, since Lifeblood was a commerial flop, he's been trying less ambitious lyrics since then.

[Takk]

What is so welsh about adfl?

[Industrial Symphony No.1]

Originally Posted by Takk

What is so welsh about adfl?

Apart from being written by a Welsh band, nothing. It is a song about working class culture that transcends borders and nationalities.

[Littlesue]

Originally Posted by Industrial Symphony No.1

Apart from being written by a Welsh band, nothing. It is a song about working class culture that transcends borders and nationalities.

Really?? I thought it was about getting drunk

[Bathtub]

Originally Posted by Takk

What is so welsh about adfl?

I always thought there was a strong element of old style Welsh Methodism to it, which was big in the valleys around the mid to late 18th century and that the references in the song to libraries, social conformity, drinking and poverty relate more specifically to that rather than some grand vision of the working class condition.

[Heart2Heart]

All this talk makes me miss the old Manics . No, not the feather boa and slogan Manics, but the Manics I came to grow up with -- the one that gave voice to my political sentiments.

Say what you will about Freedom of Speech, I love that song. I was a massive nationalist teenager growing up in Asia and full of anti-American sentiment, I liked it. It was the only reason I bought KYE, when I didn't know much about the band.

Now his best political comment is 'I hate the Internet'. . Well, except for Golden Platitudes...

To me, Nicky at his finest >>>> Richey's lyrics. And I'm saying this as someone who has a pic of Richey set as my iPhone wallpaper. Unless you count 4st7lbs, a good Nicky song can become stuck to someone and become their personal anthem in a way a Richey song can't. 1985, Tolerate, and for many ADFL...such powerful songs.

[nsebastian]

Originally Posted by Heart2Heart

To me, Nicky at his finest >>>> Richey's lyrics. And I'm saying this as someone who has a pic of Richey set as my iPhone wallpaper. Unless you count 4st7lbs, a good Nicky song can become stuck to someone and become their personal anthem in a way a Richey song can't. 1985, Tolerate, and for many ADFL...such powerful songs.

What amuses me about this is that I'm the complete opposite. I much prefer Richey's lyrics, have a picture of Nicky as my iPhone wallpaper, and can usually only personally relate to Richey's lyrics. Nicky has some great, definitely anthemic ones, but ADFL and the like are more broad, universal songs. His songs can mean a lot to me, and I can appreciate the politics in them, but I can't think of any I'd call "personal anthems." Maybe "This is Yesterday" could be considered something of the sort, for me.