What alternative mixes are there?

[polar_bear]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Ah fair enough, haven't listened to the original in years but I remember the vocal track sounding completely different.

I just listened to them both, the vocal is completely different. You can tell it's an older James on the LT version. Maybe he just re-did the vocals and added that guitar in the intro?

[robg1979]

Totally agree, it's 100% a different vocal, clearly an older James as well. Wonder why he denied it being a re recording? Unless he was just fibbing or it escaped him.

[whoatemydinner]

Just wanted to drop in and say that I just recently noticed that "So Why So Sad" has an ever so slightly different single mix when compared to the album version - the ending is mixed differently and the drums end two bars earlier than on the album version. That's the version of the track that's used in the video by the way. It's not a real edit as such so I'd classify as an alternative mix! No idea how it took me so long to notice the difference.

[Noisy Cat]

Originally Posted by polar_bear

I just listened to them both, the vocal is completely different. You can tell it's an older James on the LT version. Maybe he just re-did the vocals and added that guitar in the intro?

Originally Posted by robg1979

Totally agree, it's 100% a different vocal, clearly an older James as well. Wonder why he denied it being a re recording? Unless he was just fibbing or it escaped him.

Perhaps the 'new' vocal was mixed really quietly in the original version, and then brought up in the LT version?

[Routine Builder]

For reference, here are the different mixes:

EMG Era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv-GXAfB040

LT Era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLV1SvZaGA

The vocal tracks are definitely not the same unless there's a lot of filtering and pitch shifting going on, and neither are the guitar tracks.

One thought in my head, is that they may have originally released the demo rather than the full studio version which may explain the inconsistency between James's recollection on what's actually on the CDs. I know they played the song once or twice during the EMG tour (in Canada as an encore of all things) but I can't imagine they have so much love for the track re-record it years later. Maybe James hated the vocal on the original and wanted to airbrush it out of history.

Here's a live recording of the song from 1996:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1UnGdrgFuw

[Noisy Cat]

Originally Posted by robg1979

Totally agree, it's 100% a different vocal, clearly an older James as well. Wonder why he denied it being a re recording? Unless he was just fibbing or it escaped him.

I think this is the most likely explanation. It has to be a re-recording.

[Son of Stopped]

Hahahaha! That was too long thinking you were talking about the vocal to Close My Eyes being rerecorded.
Could always check, but it does mean getting on my hands and knees to the cobwebby CD singles graveyard.

[Glyn]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

For reference, here are the different mixes:

EMG Era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv-GXAfB040

LT Era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLV1SvZaGA

The vocal tracks are definitely not the same unless there's a lot of filtering and pitch shifting going on, and neither are the guitar tracks.

One thought in my head, is that they may have originally released the demo rather than the full studio version which may explain the inconsistency between James's recollection on what's actually on the CDs. I know they played the song once or twice during the EMG tour (in Canada as an encore of all things) but I can't imagine they have so much love for the track re-record it years later. Maybe James hated the vocal on the original and wanted to airbrush it out of history.

Here's a live recording of the song from 1996:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1UnGdrgFuw

I thought at the time that it was a new recording but after some of the mixing errors on the boxsets (Motown Junk outro bleeding into Sorrow 16, the wrong 'Whats My Name' veing used etc.) I'd say it's more than possible that someone picked up an alternative version from the archive and the mistake went unnoticed.

As you say , it would certainly explain JDB being nonplussed about it and also the fact that there was no promotional mention of it being a new version when LT came out.

[polar_bear]

For me, it's that "growl" on 'Everybody's coming home for lunch these days' on the 2003 version, just doesn't sound like his singing around the EMG period.

He does that on the Glasto 2003 version too. Not Janice Long or HMV though

[Routine Builder]

As this is bugging me for no good reason, I checked the credits for Lipstick Traces and Take the Skinheads Bowling has a 2003 publishers credit whereas the other covers credit date to when they were originally recorded. So definitely re-recorded rather than remixed, I guess the question is why? Probably not happy with the EMG version as James sounds a little horse (under starlight).

Imagine if the band had re-recorded tracks for other re-releases. I was always interested in how GT would sound with live drums rather than the programmed ones on the record.

[robg1979]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

As this is bugging me for no good reason, I checked the credits for Lipstick Traces and Take the Skinheads Bowling has a 2003 publishers credit whereas the other covers credit date to when they were originally recorded. So definitely re-recorded rather than remixed, I guess the question is why? Probably not happy with the EMG version as James sounds a little horse (under starlight).

Imagine if the band had re-recorded tracks for other re-releases. I was always interested in how GT would sound with live drums rather than the programmed ones on the record.

I once asked Sean on Twitter if he could choose any song from the back catalogue to re-record and he said Motorcycle Emptiness as it was sounding dated.

I dont think we'll ever get a definite answer to the Skinheads query unless someone asks the question again going forward.

[darkanddivine]

Interesting that they added real hi-hats/cymbals onto the 2003 version of Motorcycle to have that effect, but keeping many of the other drum machine parts.

[darkanddivine]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

I was always interested in how GT would sound with live drums rather than the programmed ones on the record.

Stars & stripes yo!

[darkanddivine]

So. Skinheads. I covered this one back in the day, so I listened to both versions quite a bit. Of course, my ears can be (and often are) wrong but this is my take.

I think the base of the 2003 version comes from the 1996 version (drums, bass, acoustics.) After that, everything else (rhythm electric guitars, lead guitars, vocals) are re-done. The whole thing is remixed to sound (for want of a better description) one step darker than the original which is very sunny sounding.

As for why, that's a good question given that it's a footnote in the bands history. I think there's a good chance that they thought "fuck it, why not" when they (apparently) had a tweak around with Judge Yrself to make that sound like 2003 them too. Skinheads is literally 3 chords, so knocking out new parts would be a matter of a couple of hours.

The other thing is, if memory serves, I seem to recall the B-sides to Australia being one of their early homages to the C86 indie scene. The mystery is probably more that, having made the changes to that song specifically, you think the band would remember something about it, given that Velocity Girls and CTMEOY were left untouched.

Anyway, that's what I reckon is going on in there.

[Routine Builder]

Originally Posted by darkanddivine

Stars & stripes yo!

Really? I did not know this.