Media Backlash when the Manics Visited Cuba

[Donkey]

Originally Posted by harrijack

I'm not trying to defend Castro. There are a lot of aspects of his regime that cannot be defended. I just don't buy the view that every other leader is morally superior.

ok then...

[strongerthanmensa]

Originally Posted by harrijack

It's not extremely different at all. Castro is only viewed as a murderer because his government isn't democratic. The killing of civillians in other countries in a war that should never have happened is still murder, but people seem to consider it different because it's been carried-out by democratic nations.

As for having no idea he was going to turn up, have you watched the Louder Than War DVD? James and Nicky's reaction upon walking into him in the venue should be proof enough. They looked shocked beyond belief. They also turned down dinner with him after the show (well, apparently Sean wanted to go but Nicky said it would be too weird). That doesn't seem to me like a well-rehearsed plan to fraternize with a communist politican as you seem to be implying.

In my last paragraph I was simply echoing what James said himself at the time*. Cuba isn't the perfect political agenda (the Manics never said it was even when they played there), but to say that playing a gig in a country endorses it's political system and leader is a bit melodramatic. Obviously they should never have played that Russian festival then, or the US, or Thailand, or Italy.

I'm sorry, but it's completely different. Castro's policies directly oppressed his own people, whereas Bush and Blair entered into an ill-judged war, which at least had the laudable objective of removing an evil dictator.

Point taken that performing a gig in a country doesn't equal endorsing its regime, but the Manics have been pretty complimentary about Castro haven't they? And meeting him was an honour, wasn't it? And they sing "you don't just sit in a rocking chair when you've built a revolution". However, I didn't know they turned down dinner with him, I think that was a creditable decision.

But anyway, I've always been midly irritated by their stance which seemed to me to be along the lines of Cuba stood up to America, therefore Cuba and Castro = Good

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by strongerthanmensa

True, but it's one thing to say that communism as an ideal is noble, it's another thing to actually go to Cuba and meet Castro, a real-life dictator with a very poor human rights record. I think it just felt like it was glossing over Castro's actual profile, in favour of simply indulging a "They don't like America, so they're great" sentiment.

Well, I think using the symbol of that regime within their imagery is a little more extreme then merely believing it represents the communist ideal. To me it represents communism's failure and it's one of the more offensive pieces of political imagery they ever used. Then again, I suspect they were trying to be controversial and offensive when they used it rather then actually claiming to admire that regime. I don't see that as being politically moral at all. Oh well, horses for courses and all that.

As for Harri's points, I agree with her to some extent, but I also agree with you Strongerthanmensa. I'll come back to this when I'm not on my mobile. It's very hard to make a point using this device.