Manics on Twitter

[Takk]

Revolution soon dies, sold out for a pay rise.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Originally Posted by Takk

Revolution soon dies, sold out for a pay rise.

Got New Art Riot going through my head now! Cheers!

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Flint

Fair point about the context. I still disagree somewhat but it's a bit of a pointless thing to debate either way.


Well, to be honest, Tolerate's the only song that's had a major life beyond its era in most parts of Europe and it's the only huge song they've had there - it pretty much dominated the airwaves during its release, to the extent that none of its predecessor or successor singles have had. So while they've had other successful singles in Europe, Tolerate is THE hit that people remember and that mostly gets played today still. I'm not sure about other regions or US, mind you, but Tolerate's generally their most successful international hit to a vast degree.

then perhaps the band should extend their interpretation of "international" beyond Europe then. i would suggest if i did a wild survey here, the only song people would recognize or name at once is "Design For Life". "Kevin Carter" tends to get random radio play here, perhaps because the DJs like Sean Moore's trumpet, perhaps because hidden away in the song is a word that you would get into a good deal of trouble for using down here.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by starstruck

perhaps because hidden away in the song is a word that you would get into a good deal of trouble for using down here.

Is that "kaffir"? I had no idea until recently that it's a racial slur in some areas. Did it used to have a different or more neutral meaning? I know Richey wasn't a racist or anything but if it's as much of a racial slur as some more common words, I'm surprised he used it at all, even if it may be contextual.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by NasalScarecrow

Is that "kaffir"? I had no idea until recently that it's a racial slur in some areas. Did it used to have a different or more neutral meaning? I know Richey wasn't a racist or anything but if it's as much of a racial slur as some more common words, I'm surprised he used it at all, even if it may be contextual.

that's the word. it has always had negative connotations down here, the Afrikaaners used (and in some corners probably still do use) it as basically what the rest of the world sees as the "n" word. it has not and probably will not ever have a "trendy" use a la the "n" word in some circles.

the word, thankfully and frankly, is not tolerated at all. you're looking at instant dismissal if for some reason you used it at work, and i have seen contracts and clients cancelled if they have used it. i am rather pleased not to have heard anyone use it in my presence all these years, which shows how revilled the word is and that the majority want it buried with apartheid.

that said, no, in the context of the song Richey intended no harm or malice. i couldn't give you the specifics, but i am pretty sure Carter and the Bang Bang Club were referred to as that for their attempts at simple, honest pictures of what was going on here. it sails through on radio play here as it clearly celebrates Carter / BBC for what they stood for and did, i really cannot imagine any other song featuring the word would go down well here.

many here find it odd that the band would celebrate Kevin Carter and yet seem to have no interest at all in heading here. they'd fill venues, certainly, but i think only U2 are the size of band that have ever been and managed to do a tour without visible corporate sponsors to just make the gigs so much as break even.

now that i think, i seem to recall some black, lacking talent artist did release a song with that as the title, not heard of since. i'm not as "down" with the kids on what they are listening to, but from what they have played me of what's effectively Africa's variant of hardcore rap / hip hop, namely Kwaito, i do not recall hearing the word on those tracks.

and all this means i shall not be attempting to access this thread at work tomorrow, for web manager / censor thing has that word at the top of its list to not only block but ask the staff member what they were doing trying to access it!

[Takk]

Originally Posted by starstruck

many here find it odd that the band would celebrate Kevin Carter and yet seem to have no interest at all in heading here. they'd fill venues, certainly, but i think only U2 are the size of band that have ever been and managed to do a tour without visible corporate sponsors to just make the gigs so much as break even.

I find that in itself a bit odd...it's just one song, I'm not sure why that would mean they would want to head there. Maybe as a holiday, but they write songs about all kinds of things.

[Manualex16]

Originally Posted by Takk

I find that in itself a bit odd...it's just one song, I'm not sure why that would mean they would want to head there. Maybe as a holiday, but they write songs about all kinds of things.

But then, they wrote Baby Elian and went to Cuba...

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Takk

I find that in itself a bit odd...it's just one song, I'm not sure why that would mean they would want to head there. Maybe as a holiday, but they write songs about all kinds of things.

it hints at an interest in the history of the place, does it not? they had never expressed much interest in Cuba that i am aware of, but one Baby Elian later and there they are with Fidel?

my suspicion is that they would have looked into it at some point, but our exchange rate is knackered and has been for quite some time; to do a tour here without sponsorship of the corporate variety would probably be a rather big financial loss for the band.

obviously don't let Nicky or Sean come on holiday here during the football season, i am assuming you don't want them discovering the magic of "African Football Trumpets" and getting "Vuvuzela Serenade" on the next album

should James come i suspect he will never leave once he gets his hands on our pies. our Prime Steak and Spare Rib ones are massive and excellent, quite frankly pissing all over this Greggs business that i tried last month to see what the fuss was about.

[Takk]

Well, they are interested in Kevin Carter...I don't know if that extends to a whole country. My guess is they don't have a big enough fanbase or the inclination to tour there when they can barely be bothered to tour Europe.

My guess is Baby Elian is a coincedence or planned when they keyed into the whole cuba theme for KYE.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Takk

Well, they are interested in Kevin Carter...I don't know if that extends to a whole country. My guess is they don't have a big enough fanbase or the inclination to tour there when they can barely be bothered to tour Europe.

My guess is Baby Elian is a coincedence or planned when they keyed into the whole cuba theme for KYE.

EMG, TIMT, KYE and FD and even LT did really well here, then for some reason LB onwards didn't even get an official release, import only.

it's kind of odd that they, or even if you will just Richey, would somehow be interested in Kevin Carter and the Bang Bang Club yet be able to have no interest in South Africa whatsoever, and as all visiting famous people in the 90s seemingly got an audience with Mr Mandela (no, no idea if Keith Richards "offered him a smoke", although he did have very good things to say about our grass in general - "would knock out an elephant" or something like that) i would have thought Nicky would have jumped at the chance, but there you go, anyone here that bothered about seeing them can i suppose fly over to do so like we did!

[Takk]

It doesn't really seem like they are that bothered about playing anywhere outside the UK and Japan, although obviously European festivals are very lucrative for them.

[Bryter Layter]

Cuba was a publicity stunt gone wrong. Still think they did a good thing bringing some live international music to Cuba, but I never believed they did it for altruistic reasons.

I love the way some fans still think the Manics are a deeply principled band who are taking a stance against the corporate bastardization of the Olympics. Weird how that perceived activist spirit doesn't extend to taking money from festivals with corporate sponsorships or playing arenas owned by large conglomerates or going on commercial television etc etc. lyrics aside, when have the Manics ever really 'stuck it to the MAN'? Ha!

They should have played the closing ceremonies if they were asked. It was a silly call on their part.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

Cuba was a publicity stunt gone wrong. Still think they did a good thing bringing some live international music to Cuba, but I never believed they did it for altruistic reasons.

i kind of always thought/hoped they did it as Shaun Ryder did something or other there when they wouldn't let him back into America, or because word had got to them that Baby Elian was well received, or even just becuase they liked Scarface.

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

I love the way some fans still think the Manics are a deeply principled band who are taking a stance against the corporate bastardization of the Olympics. Weird how that perceived activist spirit doesn't extend to taking money from festivals with corporate sponsorships or playing arenas owned by large conglomerates or going on commercial television etc etc. lyrics aside, when have the Manics ever really 'stuck it to the MAN'? Ha!

i really don't think any fan actually thinks that, and if they do they only need to look at the label they are signed on and that label's spectacular successes as a corporate that cares about consumers.

they've never said they didn't want to sell records, so TV and concerts, sponsored by whoever, is the only way to promote really. sadly, to come to places like down here they only way they could fund it would probably be to have massive Coke logos at the side of the stage - that was the way it was when bands like Evanescence, Kaiser Chiefs, Placebo and indeed Oasis came. i can't see them ever doing something that blatant, although let me make it clear i don't entirely disagree with what you said right there.

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

They should have played the closing ceremonies if they were asked. It was a silly call on their part.

i've been lucky enough to get to know a few members of my all time favourites, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, over the years. their one single biggest regret? turning down Live Aid. they were in the States at the time, had no idea what was going on or what it was all about and had advisors telling them "it wasn't all that big a deal, only Adam Ant, Boomtown Rats and Queen (who were still reeling from the playing in apartheid SA backlash) are doing it". needless to say, they were rather fucked off when they tuned in and saw exactly what it was.

there's a massive difference between Live Aid and the Olympics, granted, but i kind of hope they don't ever clock "hang on, we could have played to an audience of one billion" and spend lots of time sulking, the choice was theirs.

[Bobafettish]

Originally Posted by Bryter Layter

I love the way some fans still think the Manics are a deeply principled band who are taking a stance against the corporate bastardization of the Olympics. Weird how that perceived activist spirit doesn't extend to taking money from festivals with corporate sponsorships or playing arenas owned by large conglomerates or going on commercial television etc etc. lyrics aside, when have the Manics ever really 'stuck it to the MAN'? Ha!

They should have played the closing ceremonies if they were asked. It was a silly call on their part.

I don't think any manics fans feel that. I think most fans just accept that they're just a good band musically, they've never been coherently political. Nicky is the only one who takes his ever increasingly erratic views seriously. The reason they probably turned down the games was that James and Sean were nervous, rather than any idiotic leftist tripe from Wire.
How dare Wire, a man who infamously slurped Coca Cola in Cuba, have a strop about the corporatism of sport? He's just an ignorant hypocrite at times.
Rant over, sorry Wire

[Takk]

Originally Posted by starstruck

i can't see them ever doing something that blatant, although let me make it clear i don't entirely disagree with what you said right there.

They already have I am sure, but I don't have a clever example to hand.