Album 14

[blackflower]

Caved in and ordered the deluxe CD and T shirt bundle. Not signed, but I'm hoping there'll be a Rough Trade gig where I can get a different format signed in person.

Loving Orwellian and its themes. I'm interested to hear some people complaining about the 'centrist' nature of the lyrics. For me, the most Orwellian aspects of modern society are coming from the left - book burnings, cancel culture, deplatforming, policing of language etc. And I say this as a life long Labour voter, until very recently. So I couldn't see how they could have approached the topic from anything but a centre-leaning perspective. If anything, I might have expected more vitriol towards the left for abandoning the principles of freedom of speech and expression.

[LA ex]

I still think James is actually singing "The future fucks the past" despite the lyrics saying it's fights.

[beautifuldistortion]

Originally Posted by blackflower

Caved in and ordered the deluxe CD and T shirt bundle. Not signed, but I'm hoping there'll be a Rough Trade gig where I can get a different format signed in person.

Loving Orwellian and its themes. I'm interested to hear some people complaining about the 'centrist' nature of the lyrics. For me, the most Orwellian aspects of modern society are coming from the left - book burnings, cancel culture, deplatforming, policing of language etc. And I say this as a life long Labour voter, until very recently. So I couldn't see how they could have approached the topic from anything but a centre-leaning perspective. If anything, I might have expected more vitriol towards the left for abandoning the principles of freedom of speech and expression.

This is a brilliant post.
Agree with it all.

I should think that the choosing sides line was more about UK politics than USA.
James and Nicky have made no secret of the fact they have been disillusioned with Labour for a few years now.
And without getting too political it's quite easy to see why.
At the moment we are still allowed to change allegiances or have doubts about your party's decisions or lack of direction.

[revcheese]

The song is okay but feels like a continuation of RiF. Have to say that naming a song 'Orwellian' is incredibly cringeworthy and on the nose, given how overwrought and meaningless the term has become.

Originally Posted by blackflower

Caved in and ordered the deluxe CD and T shirt bundle. Not signed, but I'm hoping there'll be a Rough Trade gig where I can get a different format signed in person.

Loving Orwellian and its themes. I'm interested to hear some people complaining about the 'centrist' nature of the lyrics. For me, the most Orwellian aspects of modern society are coming from the left - book burnings, cancel culture, deplatforming, policing of language etc. And I say this as a life long Labour voter, until very recently. So I couldn't see how they could have approached the topic from anything but a centre-leaning perspective. If anything, I might have expected more vitriol towards the left for abandoning the principles of freedom of speech and expression.

Can you elaborate on this? Whose book has been 'burned'? Who has truly been cancelled? Add to the fact that the left do not have political power in the UK and haven't for over 4 decades - it's a mystery as to why you think it's the left who are most at fault here.

[blackflower]

Originally Posted by revcheese

Can you elaborate on this? Whose book has been 'burned'? Who has truly been cancelled? Add to the fact that the left do not have political power in the UK and haven't for over 4 decades - it's a mystery as to why you think it's the left who are most at fault here.

People were burning JK Rowling's books last year because they disagreed with her essay on women's rights.
Maya Forstater and Sasha White have lost their jobs for expressing similar opinions.
The podcasters at Triggernometry were kicked out of their studio for criticising aspects of the BLM organisation.
Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying of the Dark Horse podcast were subjected to horrific mob behaviour and lost their university professor jobs because they refused to leave campus when ordered to by some of the students.


These are just some examples of people who lost livelihoods or faced threats because they expressed opinions that go against current leftist thinking. Whether you agree with their opinions or not, they should have the right to express them without facing death threats or losing their jobs. But the left is no longer the side that protects freedom of speech.

[Europa Gluten Free]

Still listening to this song over and over again today in the car and at home. Realising I much prefer this side of the Manics compared to the International Blue / Motorcycle Emptiness typical guitar riffing stuff. (For this week anyhow!!!) But really looking forward to the album now. Digging the name. Digging the artwork. Think this could be another Lifeblood-esque winter album - for me anyhow.

[FacelessSenseOfVoid]

Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free

Still listening to this song over and over again today in the car and at home. Realising I much prefer this side of the Manics compared to the International Blue / Motorcycle Emptiness typical guitar riffing stuff. (For this week anyhow!!!) But really looking forward to the album now. Digging the name. Digging the artwork. Think this could be another Lifeblood-esque winter album - for me anyhow.

I'm probably in a minority in that I love International Blue (more than ME) but actually prefer a Lifeblood style album all round.

Orwellian seems to be more of an extension of James' solo work with an Eringa/Manics production but clearly it's more piano driven and the melody and delivery of the song mirrors material on EIE.

The chord sequence as the song approaches the chorus is brilliant - it's mainly C to G for most of the verse but then it goes from to Dm to Am, pretty standard stuff and then a B chord, which sounds jarring but really works and then to Bb and into the chorus.

I have very high hopes for the album and from judging by the samples on the trailer, I think it has the potential to be better than RIF.

[Marat Sar]

Originally Posted by usagainstyou

What do you mean? Orwell is timeless.

It's, as someone said here, a little cringeworthy they down and right called a song "Orwellian" without adding anything to it or subverting it in any way. The mental acrobatics I employ to get around it -- and to liking what is a super melodic and sparkling manics single that I like -- is as follows: the 70s ABBA piano riff and "cutting edge in the seventies" Orwellian society critique are aesthetically compatible and thus show a certain self awareness. This conceptually enriches the idea enough for me to enjoy it.

[centralscrutiniser]

Originally Posted by blackflower

People were burning JK Rowling's books last year because they disagreed with her essay on women's rights.
Maya Forstater and Sasha White have lost their jobs for expressing similar opinions.
The podcasters at Triggernometry were kicked out of their studio for criticising aspects of the BLM organisation.
Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying of the Dark Horse podcast were subjected to horrific mob behaviour and lost their university professor jobs because they refused to leave campus when ordered to by some of the students.


These are just some examples of people who lost livelihoods or faced threats because they expressed opinions that go against current leftist thinking. Whether you agree with their opinions or not, they should have the right to express them without facing death threats or losing their jobs. But the left is no longer the side that protects freedom of speech.

Very good!

[jac185]

I thought Orwellian was a trite title too (and still do to be honest - I can imagine it got a few eyerolls from non-Manics fans) but when I heard the JDB interview the other day about how the word gets thrown around so much these days, I actually now kind of view the lyric as a bit more about how the word gets thrown around, and the way language is used, rather than actually being about the idea that 'we live in Orwellian times'.

[Routine Builder]

To be honest, on a list of things I spend time fretting about, the job prospects of a few right wing bigots is not very high. There is no excuse for the personal abuse that JK Rowling has received, none whatsoever. But I find it funny that people seem to care about abuse directed towards women on the internet (which is extremely common) only when they have anti-trans views. Didn't see this outcry or support during Gamergate, that's for sure Also I am free to burn any JK Rowling books I own, that is a perfectly acceptable form of free speech and very different to the state collecting private collections of books and burning them in public.

Freedom of speech is a responsibility, not a blank cheque to piss on whatever minority you think shouldn't have the gall to speak up for their rights.

[blackflower]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

To be honest, on a list of things I spend time fretting about, the job prospects of a few right wing bigots is not very high. There is no excuse for the personal abuse that JK Rowling has received, none whatsoever. But I find it funny that people seem to care about abuse directed towards women on the internet (which is extremely common) only when they have anti-trans views. Didn't see this outcry or support during Gamergate, that's for sure Also I am free to burn any JK Rowling books I own, that is a perfectly acceptable form of free speech and very different to the state collecting private collections of books and burning them in public.

Freedom of speech is a responsibility, not a blank cheque to piss on whatever minority you think shouldn't have the gall to speak up for their rights.

None of the people I listed are right wing, and none are anti-trans. It’s not transphobic to believe in biological sex or protecting women’s sex based rights. People can have differing opinions on what this means and there should be conversations around that, but conversations are difficult when people get banned from platforms or labelled as bigots for expressing certain options. Meanwhile, the misogyny and homophobia expressed by some of the trans rights activists has been extreme, and comparatively consequence-free.

And of course you may burn whatever books you wish, I was just making the point that it’s people aligned with the progressive left who have been doing this in recent times, and not people on the right.

No one I mentioned has been pissing on any minority - they have simply expressed concerns in very moderate ways and been vilified beyond proportion. This is what I find chilling in modern society.

[raven]

I'm not sure burning books is an acceptable means of free speech....even though there's 942546 million copies of Harry Potter in circulation ...last time I counted...so who'd miss a few...As a symbolic act it brings to mind dictatorships...Hitlers and Khomeini's....Of course not every opinion has to be tolerated but the symbol of a burning book suggests none are tolerated other than your own....and it doesn't clearly express what opinions those may be other than a hatred of others having access to others...

[Finn]

Originally Posted by blackflower

No one I mentioned has been pissing on any minority - they have simply expressed concerns in very moderate ways

"Expressed concerns in very moderate ways" = posts social media comment saying you're 'glad' a cis woman was willing to commit a vicious beating of a trans woman, whilst also misgendering the victim.



Sasha White seems pretty immoderate and 'anti-trans' to me.

[cameron33]

I have to agree that the song reminds me in some ways of International Blue. Personally I think they’re of similar quality: both very good songs if not “amazing”. What is key is how it fits into the album. International Blue was one of, at most, 4 good bits in an otherwise very unexceptional and rather dull album by Manic standards. Let’s hope that isn’t the case this time. Even better if the whole can actually elevate its parts.