Your prediction after Manics' American tour..

[The Gutless Wonder]

It would still be because it's gone over budget to what they had expected to pay, whether they're carrying the can or Sony are.

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by Takk

I'm sure it does, I meant for a tour this size though.....presumably any debt incurred is carried by sony, not the band personally!

EDIT: Debt question answered! Thanks I Blame History for the info! Thanks for sharing that tid bit!

Regardless of who incurs the debt, neither party could have possibly believed that the tour would generate a huge revenue. And as those who talked to Sean mentioned, they intend to recoup the loss by playing big money making festivals. I guess that kind of suggests they're not too bothered by the fact that they took a loss on venture out this way.

[The Gutless Wonder]

They did it before with Cuba and with that pub/club place that they'd bought but it then fell through. The ups and downs of business, even in the music industry!

[i blame history]

Originally Posted by Takk

I'm sure it does, I meant for a tour this size though.....presumably any debt incurred is carried by sony, not the band personally!

If you're referring to this N. American tour, it was definitely the band, paying the full $100k out of pocket themselves because they actually wanted to do this, even without label support. However, after the tour kicked off, they had "been in contact" with the label and everyone "now has more of an idea of what to expect."

meh, I figure you know this, Takk, but I'm kind of just throwing that out there for whoever wants it!

Anyway, I don't think it's the band's intent to gain much popularity over here. They clearly did this for the fans that they have known/suspected that they had waiting over here, and it seemed to me that they were absolutely blown away by just how much it meant to some of us. In their eyes, the response seemed like it was an over the top exaggeration of what they had expected, not in terms of ticket sales but in terms of the intensity and dedication of the people they saw night after night... it sure seemed like they wanted to come do it all again, even if it meant losing money. My guess is they never expected to have a copy of Feminine is Beautiful put in front of them to sign, or people carrying stacks of records and odds and ends to have signed. It seems like they were surprised just by the number of things that they saw that never had an actual US release.

Truth be told, I highly doubt losing money on a N. American tour will ever put the band in a tough spot. They're likely doing very well for themselves, to say the least. They only did this because they had no reservations about taking a hit on the money.

[Mr Richey]

Originally Posted by A

The Street Preachers will remain in obscurity in the Untied Sates.

ROFL!

Welcome to FD!

i personally don't see why they need or want to "break north america". i just wish they valued their small, but loyal american fan base an inkling more. i do understand that it's not likely financially beneficial for them to come over for every album, so i 100% appreciate it when they do. it's like a GIFT to us...i just wish they gave us the gift of their presence a little more often. i quite like being able to see them in small venues on an intimate level.

[InVinoVeritas]

Originally Posted by A

The Street Preachers will remain in obscurity in the Untied Sates.

Hehe, hopefully not Europe is missing them

Welcome to FD

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Sansan

I think the band has enough money and success that any money they'd lose in America doesn't even matter.

I really don't think that they so incredibly rich that the sort of debt that they acquired from this tour "doesn't even matter"...

Originally Posted by Sansan

Playing in America gives the band a chance to do something they can't do anywhere else. Here they can play small intimate shows and interact with the audience. Almost every performer enjoys the small venue show over the large one. Where else can the Manics do that?

Most Manics shows these days are in pretty small venues. They certainly aren't playing the arenas and stadiums that they were around 1999 - 2002. Granted, Boston was probably the smallest venue I've seen the band in with the exception of the AOL thing in 2007, but I've seen them in the UK in places about the size or smaller than Webster Hall in NYC.

This is not meant to be taking anything away from your experience of the tour. I'm just pointing out the facts. TheGreatPretender is right - The US tour was successful, and the shows were bloody great. I don't think tzb was saying that the tour hasn't achieved anything or that they shouldn't go back to the US (I personally definitely think they should... after they've given me a chance to save up again ) but more that the Manics can play whatever small sized shows they want in the UK.

Originally Posted by Sansan

Enjoy paying out the ass for that.

They cost about the same. Often the smaller gigs are cheaper.

Originally Posted by bristarman

Exactly - also they could rent the gear, amps, drums etc like many bands do.

They did rent equitment, according to Sean.

Originally Posted by Takk

I'm sure it does, I meant for a tour this size though.....presumably any debt incurred is carried by sony, not the band personally!

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

Yeah, I would've thought that too.

Originally Posted by &ria

nope the debt is all theirs.
even if sony did incur the debt, the manics would still have to pay it via a percentage of their record sales.

Tours are organised by the band and the management. Record labels will help out with costs but they don't get any money from the ticket sales so won't foot the entire bill for a tour.

[Irradiata]

Thanks for bringing up the venue size. How large were the venues on the JFPL tour in the UK? And, was that a typical size for the Manics, or were they playing smaller venues because they didn't release any singles?

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by BradfieldsLoveChild

This is not meant to be taking anything away from your experience of the tour. I'm just pointing out the facts. TheGreatPretender is right - The US tour was successful, and the shows were bloody great. I don't think tzb was saying that the tour hasn't achieved anything or that they shouldn't go back to the US (I personally definitely think they should... after they've given me a chance to save up again )

Yeah, you're right. It probably was very unfair of me to isolate tzb's comments because he was probably only making a comparrison. I apologize if I jumped to conclusions too quickly. Hey, I'm sick as a dog and probably a wee bit too touchy. However, it did seem that the general feel of the thread at that stage seemed to be moving towards a they're bigger here so why even bother with that part of the world at this stage of their career? I just wanted to voice my opinion before it reached that stage.
It was a good tour and I think if many in the UK saw the reception they recieved over here, they'd be impressed considering the prevailing attitude is (even among us in N America) they really don't have much of a following on this continent.
Actually, now that I know the circumstances surrounding this tour, I think it's made me an even bigger fan then I was previously.

Irradiata, great questions hun! I'm interested to know what the answers are too.
Btw, happy Thanksgiving to you and the fam!

[The Gutless Wonder]

Really? Looks like we're headed the same way if HMV is anything to go by!

[tzb]

Originally Posted by TheGreatPretender

Oh come on man, let people over here have their moment in the sun for once! This whole discussion is in danger of being drag down to the level of a "them vs us" arguement.

Couldn't agree more, which is why I didn't let the "because of venues sizes we've had it better than you could ever have it in the UK" comment ride. It's simply not true. As others have said we do get small venue gigs over here fairly frequently.

I'm just not really interested in idle, unsubstantiated claims. I'm sure the US shows were very special in all manner of ways, but suggesting they couldn't play small gigs over here seems an obviously daft thing to say. They do. I'm not sure how stating this fact makes me someone pissing on someone else's bonfire, I'm just trying to keep discussion within the confines of reality.

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by tzb

Couldn't agree more, which is why I didn't let the "because of venues sizes we've had it better than you could ever have it in the UK" comment ride. It's simply not true. As others have said we do get small venue gigs over here fairly frequently.

I'm just not really interested in idle, unsubstantiated claims. I'm sure the US shows were very special in all manner of ways, but suggesting they couldn't play small gigs over here seems an obviously daft thing to say. They do. I'm not sure how stating this fact makes me someone pissing on someone else's bonfire, I'm just trying to keep discussion within the confines of reality.

Yeah, sorry about that my dear, totally misinterpreted the point you were trying to make. My apologies!
I'm sure they could play small venues over there - many popular bands do (Radiohead) on occasion to "keep it real" (whatever that means ). I guess the point that was being made initially is that if the Manics were to play a venue the size of say Philly (not Toronto and NYC - they were much bigger venues) in the UK, not only would getting a ticket be tough, but they'd be mobbed should they attempt to meet the fans post-gig as they did on this tour. I realize their popularity has dwindled a bit since the days of TIMT in Britain, but they're still a hell of a lot more known there then they are on this continent. At least, that's what I'm assuming the originator of that statement meant.

[sculptureofabloke]

I hope they get some new fans out of this. Wonder how many people just saw the listing in the paper or whatever and just went along to one of the gigs because they just wanted to go to a gig. They're a brilliant live act, I expect they can win people over like that. Remember talkin to a bloke at the Man City gig last year, he wasn't there for Manics at all, just thought they were "alright", but admitted they were brilliant live and said he was gonna grab a couple of albums the next day.

Wouldn't surprise me if they don't make many new fans out of it, like. Plenty of people who've been waiting 10 years for this, and then there's the fortunate ones who could afford to fly out from here anyway.

[relic]

Originally Posted by TheGreatPretender

they'd be mobbed should they attempt to meet the fans post-gig as they did on this tour.

You're still making those assumptions. Yes, the Manics are popular over here, but the hardcore fans who are willing and able to stay behind after gigs don't always add up to a 'mob'. They played the Guildhall in Preston during the spring leg of the SATT tour, not a big venue at all, and there were only about a dozen or so of us waiting around after the gig. I think the best combination of factors to meet them is cold weather, a 'work day' the next day, and a fairly small venue.

Some places are harder than others, I've never managed to meet them after a Cardiff gig because they stay in the venue for much longer as they tend to have more family and friends around after the show.