Am I the only one who thought PFAYM was a bit pants?

[The Gutless Wonder]

Postcards is to the Manics what Vapor Trails is to Rush probably and I love both albums!

[bachelorette]

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

Postcards is to the Manics what Vapor Trails is to Rush probably and I love both albums!

A c'mon Gutless, that's unfair on Rush! I'm not even trying to disown Postcards, it just felt as if the Manics did and that has definitely influenced my perception of it. Vapor Trails is a classic and I don't think Rush treat it like something they are embarrassed with? But that's trailing off towards the Rush thread.

[darkanddivine]

Originally Posted by tzb

Couldn't agree more - Kent are my model of a band ageing gracefully.

Indeed. Part of the the thing MSP seem to (from the outside) struggle with, is how their music is backed by the image of their youth, their younger selves and "staying true" to that. Giving yourself a strict artistic remit before picking up a guitar can work when you are younger I feel. At 40, you should just do whatever the hell you like, and if possible blow apart the existing preconceptions of what you are as a band.

There is a delicious irony in Kent even calling themselves a rock band anymore, yet that doesn't seem to matter. They stick to their ideology of making music they like, whatever that is, whatever interests them. They are about the same age as MSP, and their high quality of work until recently is because they identified this issue early enough and changed their sound to suit.

[MarilynRoxie]

Originally Posted by AK47

Both SATT & PFAYM represent the manics at the their least creative and unmotivated. There is probably 3 songs per album that are passable but still not up there with the best.

This is exactly how I feel, althougH I think I dislike SATT and PFAYM for different reasons: SATT is simply not my style but PFAYM verges on being just bad. I've been able to listen to SATT a few times to evaluate it, but I have only heard PFAYM through twice after all this time. I can't say that I don't like them because they represent a "softer" Manics because I like TIMT and Lifeblood, so that can't be it. It's almost hard to put my finger on it, but they repel me nonetheless. I think I agree with the sentiment expressed about PFAYM here already that the music is rather uninspired-sounding - I can't even recall the tune of any song specifically apart from the title track.

[bachelorette]

Originally Posted by darkanddivine

Indeed. Part of the the thing MSP seem to (from the outside) struggle with, is how their music is backed by the image of their youth, their younger selves and "staying true" to that. Giving yourself a strict artistic remit before picking up a guitar can work when you are younger I feel. At 40, you should just do whatever the hell you like, and if possible blow apart the existing preconceptions of what you are as a band.

There is a delicious irony in Kent even calling themselves a rock band anymore, yet that doesn't seem to matter. They stick to their ideology of making music they like, whatever that is, whatever interests them. They are about the same age as MSP, and their high quality of work until recently is because they identified this issue early enough and changed their sound to suit.

I couldn't have put it better. Which is sad, really, as I love the Manics and I wish they had whatever spark it is that Kent have ahead of them - is it just the confidence of succeeding with whatever mad scheme they come up with?
That being said, Postcards desolation is over, now, and the new stuff sounds as if the Manics are finally daring to be the great band they can be. Krautrock sung in German? Acoustic album with a song sung by a woman with a voice like a toothache? Bring it on, at least it's not bland and repetitive!

[RookUK]

Personally, I think Postcards is one of the weakest Manics albums (roughly around the level of GATS in my estimations) but I still really enjoy it. For me, the Manics are a genuinely exceptional band and when they have an "off" album it is still as good or better than the records most other bands produce. I think the album is very much about ageing gracefully, and admitting to not being quite as sure about things as the band were years earlier - and I like that aspect of it. I think 'I Think I've Found It' could become a minor milestone in our understanding of the band.

What I do find frustrating about quite a few of the songs is that they are just too overloaded with fluffy orchestral elements, which can be great, but are disastrous when overdone. I was baffled at the time when so many people seemed to love 'Some Kind of Nothingness', because to me it was the sound of the Manics entombed, barely audible, inside this overblown nightmare. In particular, choirs and MSP just don't mesh together very well in my mind. What McCulloch was supposed to add to it I've no idea.

Because I reviewed the last two records for The Line of Best Fit I have my impressions from that time preserved forever, and it's interesting to look back on them (my Postcards review is here). Broadly speaking I feel the same now about the records, even as I feel my writing has moved on a little since then...

It is funny how things can change, though. I used to really like EMG (and still do, on some level) but it's fallen quite far in my estimations.

[sofarsideways]

Originally Posted by darkanddivine

Part of the the thing MSP seem to (from the outside) struggle with, is how their music is backed by the image of their youth, their younger selves and "staying true" to that. Giving yourself a strict artistic remit before picking up a guitar can work when you are younger I feel. At 40, you should just do whatever the hell you like, and if possible blow apart the existing preconceptions of what you are as a band.

Yes. The line 'been at war with myself' has always rung very true with the Manics - it's just how they use that conflict.

Originally Posted by RookUK

What I do find frustrating about quite a few of the songs is that they are just too overloaded with fluffy orchestral elements, which can be great, but are disastrous when overdone. I was baffled at the time when so many people seemed to love 'Some Kind of Nothingness', because to me it was the sound of the Manics entombed, barely audible, inside this overblown nightmare. In particular, choirs and MSP just don't mesh together very well in my mind. What McCulloch was supposed to add to it I've no idea.

This, so much this. What good - at least, what potential - there was at times in PFAYM was just drowned in nonsense. So frustrating.

[tzb]

Originally Posted by bachelorette

Postcards desolation is over, now

Love this

[Abstract Unknown Girl]

Originally Posted by sofarsideways

I really tried with PFAYM, I wanted to like it so much, but it just wouldn't happen. Prior to that album I'd always said I honestly liked everything the Manics had ever done. I can still say there's nothing I truly actively dislike, but in a way I think that's further to the detriment of PFAYM - it just doesn't inspire ANYTHING, good or bad. For me the biggest letdown was actually the music. I don't think Wire's lyrics were at all bad for the most part, but soundwise it was an album in a serious rut.

This sums it all up for me I think, although I can't even bring myself to listen to the whole album anymore. I quite like the title track, Golden Platitudes is ok until the gospel choir kicks in and All We Make Is Entertainment isn't bad, but other than that, the rest of the album is indistinguishable, uninspired BLAHNESS to me. And it's the music, rather than the lyrics that I found such a massive disappointment. I've always been someone who will focus more on the melodies than the lyrics; I can forgive slightly crap lyrics as long as the music itself is solid, but PFAYM was musically very weak, hence why I don't bother listening to it anymore.

Weirdly, the PFAYM tour dates I went to were full of all the joy and vigour the album being promoted was missing, and things only dulled down for the songs from PFAYM. I wonder if that was as palpable as it felt to me, if others felt the same, and if the band felt it. They seemed to have gotten past PFAYM by the time it had dropped, in some ways.

I did quite a few dates on the PFAYM tour and have to say with the exception of the Manchester gig (which was brilliant), it was all pretty forgettable. I felt like the band were going through the motions with the few new tracks they bothered to play. I'm still baffled by their decision to repeatedly play Hazelton Avenue out of all the songs on that album, but there we go. I'd say that was symptomatic of a band lacking in confidence and not really believing in the album they'd just released (they seemed a bit embarrassed by it tbh). Normally they at least wait until the next album to disown the one before

I know it was probably partly my fault for doing so many gigs on one tour in the first place (although I did get refunds on the re-scheduled Brixton gigs, but there were other reasons for that decision besides me wanting a bit of a break from the band, but I'd be lying if I said that wasn't partly why) and to be fair, the handful of gigs they did in May 2011 were MUCH better than the whole of the PFAYM tour I thought, as was the O2 gig.

I think the band have since acknowledged, in a kinda like y'know way, that they'd hit a bit of a wall and were running on empty, and it does seem like they've taken the approach they needed to with this new album. I really, really hope that's the case. Everyone's allowed a bad day, a bad album. I don't think it's symptomatic of a downward curve at all. They just need a shake-up - JFPL was one, and look how astoundingly that turned out. They just need to realise they can do it, that they don't necessarily need Richey's input, however brilliant it may be. They're just as brilliant and capable of turning things upside down themselves.

Yep, I've kind of put the PFAYM era to bed now; I've gotten over the feeling of wanting to distance myself from the band a bit and the disappointment of really not liking a Manics album. I'm ready for the next one (well, two!) now and feel a lot more optimistic that it's going to be music the band want to make, rather than music they think they should be making. Of course there's no guarantees I'll like it, but it sounds like they've learnt from their mistakes with PFAYM and I'm excited to hear what they've come up with.

Originally Posted by RookUK

What I do find frustrating about quite a few of the songs is that they are just too overloaded with fluffy orchestral elements, which can be great, but are disastrous when overdone. I was baffled at the time when so many people seemed to love 'Some Kind of Nothingness', because to me it was the sound of the Manics entombed, barely audible, inside this overblown nightmare. In particular, choirs and MSP just don't mesh together very well in my mind. What McCulloch was supposed to add to it I've no idea.

I've never liked SKON that much either (or any of the gospel choir parts, urgh!). It's too over-blown and the end bit reminds me of something from The Lion King for some reason I think they just threw everything at it thinking it would sound really EPIC and HUGE, but the bare bones of the songs got lost amongst all the production.

[hummingbird]

The singles weren't so bad. At least they had nice artwork

[Phil C]

Ah yes, the existential angst of gospel choirs. I found it quite amusing at the time that so many Manics fans were trashing 'Postcards' for not doing anything 'new', whilst showing that the very presence of something as straight-forward as a group of people singing together is enough to trigger spasms.

I dunno, maybe it's because I used to sing in choirs and know what it feels like to be inside the performance as well as listening to it from the outside. The gospel choir on 'Postcards' is great and I wish they'd written a couple more songs for the album that featured it. 'Some Kind Of Nothingness' won me over on the first 'Jools Holland' performance, even though in many ways it's the kind of Manics song I like least - the 'having a bit of a moan about nothing much' track. But it's the very size of the choir sound that makes it - it's a song to get lost in, especially on the last chorus. And there's so much depth in it -next time you listen to it, keep an ear out for the men in the choir singing the bass part (it's clearer on the 'Jools' version).

'Golden Platitudes' is a whole different beast of course. The song builds slowly and doesn't even need a chorus to remain compelling. It's one of the most beautiful songs the Manics have ever written, with a great lyric too.

And now I'm going to commit sacrilege. 'Postcards' (the track) is a clear attempt to re-write 'Motorcycle Emptiness' (just as the irritating 'Autumnsong' was a couple of years before). And I'd argue it's actually *better*. I mean, 'Motorcycle' is great and all but 'Postcards' for me has the edge. It's just more full-one, elegiac yet defiant at the same time and it's just moving in a way that 'Motorcycle' is too cynically detached to ever be.

And that's just focusing on the ballads. We also have 'Auto-Intoxication', a song which (like 'Golden Platitudes') ignores the Manics' usual 'verse/chorus' structure, by having three distinct and very different sections - chugging verse, ethereal bridge and howling chorus. We have the solo-ing madness of 'A Billion Balconies', the delightfully flippant flip-off of 'Don't Be Evil', the enjoyably camp '...End Of Love', the gorgeous trumpet-driven 'The Future Has Been Here 4-Ever' (the *only* Manics track to make proper use of Sean's ability with the instrument). We also have Wire's best set of lyrics since 'Know Your Enemy'.

So, is 'Postcards' among their very best? Not *quite*. I'm not a big fan of 'The Descent' or 'I Think I Found It', while 'Hazleton Avenue' and 'All We Make Is Entertainment' are close but not quite smoking. But that still makes a very solid album indeed - not as good as 'Journal For Plague Lovers', but much better than 'Send Away The Tigers'.

Oh, and I note people are belly-aching about the use of horns on the next album already, like they did when gospel choirs were mentioned as featuring on 'Postcards'. Frankly, a lot of the haters of 'Postcards' seemed to have decided to hate it in advance. And at the same time people are describing the band as uninspired and musically conservative - terms which seem at times to describe their fan-base more accurately that it does the band themselves.

[Abstract Unknown Girl]

Originally Posted by Phil C

Oh, and I note people are belly-aching about the use of horns on the next album already

Are they? I think the general response from people on here so far has been largely positive about the new album, actually.

Frankly, a lot of the haters of 'Postcards' seemed to have decided to hate it in advance.

I don't agree with this either, especially when there have been several responses in this thread of people saying how much they tried to like the album, but couldn't.

And at the same time people are describing the band as uninspired and musically conservative - terms which seem at times to describe their fan-base more accurately that it does the band themselves.

Really? We're resorting to insulting the whole fanbase because some didn't like one album? Also, as a fan, I don't particularly see it as my job to be 'inspiring'; I'll leave that to the band, thanks.

[Finn]

How dare you fans of an opinionated band have differing opinions in a thread on a forum called Manic Street Preachers Discussion! It's a disgrace.

[darkanddivine]

Originally Posted by Phil C

And at the same time people are describing the band as uninspired and musically conservative - terms which seem at times to describe their fan-base more accurately that it does the band themselves.

I know I didn't. I liked It's Not War, and tried the album out but wasn't prepared for such a drop in excitement post track 3. I'd also suggest that while some of the bands fans might be stuck in their Radio 2 land ways, not all of us are. There are many of us on the forum that, while still enjoying the stately rock that MSP make, also listen to other music that would be classified as anything but conservative. There's a time and a place and all that.

And on that note, I think my own thoughts on the perceived conservatism (with comparisons) are based on the thought that MSP seem to function on a higher level when not hamstrung with a tick box list of things that the next album needs to be like. Again, I believe that better bands, at a later stage in their careers, tend to stop forming manifestos of music and just fuck everyone else off, simply making music to enjoy making it. The results are almost always more inspiring, if not a little indulgent.

With Postcards, the album, the live shows, the statements, the seemingly dejected feel of the band all added up to an underwhelming experience. That's not a criticism per se, just observations. It just appeared like they knew it wasn't all that great. That James interview after the Euro festival in summer almost confirmed this and when a band is not enjoying themselves, it's hard to enjoy along with them. I think this is why most people here are suggesting it would be great to see them back with a spring in their step, more than anything else.

We'll know for sure when they rock up on tour again, and include virtually no PFAYM songs in the setlist.
The cynical view is that old bands always play tons of their new material because the old stuff is better and would overpower it. In this case, unfortunately, it's the other way round. I'd argue aside from It's Not War and potentially Postcards itself, the other songs from that record will go the way of the Lifeblood stuff, consigned to the "only play on special occasions" list.

[A Design For Manic]

a bit pants?