Am I the only one who thought PFAYM was a bit pants?

[The Gutless Wonder]

Originally Posted by bachelorette

A c'mon Gutless, that's unfair on Rush! I'm not even trying to disown Postcards, it just felt as if the Manics did and that has definitely influenced my perception of it. Vapor Trails is a classic and I don't think Rush treat it like something they are embarrassed with? But that's trailing off towards the Rush thread.

Maybe not them theirselves but some of their fans don't have alot of nice things to say about VT!

Back on topic, well I really enjoy Postcards as a record. The overblown nature of it isn't to everyone's tastes but there you go. Life innit?

[who's responsible?]

Originally Posted by RookUK

Personally, I think Postcards is one of the weakest Manics albums (roughly around the level of GATS in my estimations) but I still really enjoy it. For me, the Manics are a genuinely exceptional band and when they have an "off" album it is still as good or better than the records most other bands produce. I think the album is very much about ageing gracefully, and admitting to not being quite as sure about things as the band were years earlier - and I like that aspect of it. I think 'I Think I've Found It' could become a minor milestone in our understanding of the band.

Can't agree Andy, lyrically it's poor in comparison with GATS (which is underrated IMO, regardless of what the band think). It's "not bad" in the sense that (in my opinion) the majority of MSP material is in a different league to other bands' offerings. It isn't their best by any means, but it's still good. SKON seems to be one of the more divisive tracks, but I have to admit that I love it. It works for me (with the exception of Ian Mc's vocal, which I don't see the point in - replacing JDB with him, even partially, is a downgrade.) The massed choirs and so on, love it.
The problem seems to be that every new offering gets compared to two of the finest musical creations of our (well, my, being an old git) generation - THB and EMG. In their past they have created some wonderful pieces of dark, twisted perfection and we judge the likes of PFAYM against this. Comparing the likes of SKON (and even the skin-crawling lyrics of Autumnsong) with Faster, PCP and the EMG era stuff isn't a fair comparison.
No doubt the new one (s) will face the same allegations of "they used to be good, but they're shit now", but frankly who cares. They provided the soundtrack to my adult life, and long may they continue.
TL;DR - Postcards is ok really.

[sofarsideways]

Originally Posted by Abstract Unknown Girl

the handful of gigs they did in May 2011 were MUCH better than the whole of the PFAYM tour I thought, as was the O2 gig.

I'm ready for the next one (well, two!) now and feel a lot more optimistic that it's going to be music the band want to make, rather than music they think they should be making. Of course there's no guarantees I'll like it, but it sounds like they've learnt from their mistakes with PFAYM and I'm excited to hear what they've come up with.

Oh entirely, they were on FIRE for those May gigs, which even moreso makes me think they got over PFAYM very quickly. I reckon the O2 gig was unexpectedly good for them post-PFAYM, in terms of reassessment and reinvigoration. We shall just have to wait and see what they come up with and what they have to say about it, but I bet that gig started some cogs turning, perhaps unexpectedly. It was a good idea for us and a good idea for them too

Another thought I've had is that they don't seem to have been talking about PFAYM much after the obvious 'era' of it. If I am remembering correctly, the situation is similar to what happened when the THB re-release came out so soon after Lifeblood - the band were obvoiusly going to talk about that to promote it, and moreso because they (and critics/fans) think so highly of THB, but they seemed to forget Lifeblood entirely... until awhile later when they wanted to deride it. Similarly now, they've all been very enamoured of the GT re-release, obviously not without good reason, but PFAYM seems to have been quietly forgotten. There's been a wider gap between releases, and so it is more understandable, but I still thought it was interesting. Comparatively, with SATT, they seemed to be going on about it, and with great affection, for a long time afterwards (still, in fact!). True, SATT didn't have a following release to distract from it, but still.

[tzb]

Originally Posted by who's responsible?

Can't agree Andy, lyrically it's poor in comparison with GATS (which is underrated IMO, regardless of what the band think).

Agreed - the high points of GATS are far higher.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Postcards deserved the reviews it got for I Think I Found It alone. Very underrated song in my opinion!

[Smiling#Girl]

From what I seem to remember they were still talking about JFPL during some of the interviews they did to promote PFAYM.That,I think,is not only because their release were very close but is a clear sign of how weak the album was especially if compared with the previous one.

[Porco]

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

Postcards deserved the reviews it got for I Think I Found It alone. Very underrated song in my opinion!

Yeah, opinions, blah, horses for courses etc, but I really never understood the relative dislike for ITIFI, even amongst those who don't like the album in general. To me it's the 'Interiors (Song for Willem De Kooning)' of PFAYM.

[who's responsible?]

Originally Posted by tzb

Agreed - the high points of GATS are far higher.

That they are. GATS is highly underrated. I know the band (and some FD members) go on about how its over-produced and lacking in feeling, but if you happen to love JDB guitar solos (which I do, without any shame) and Nicky/Richey lyrics at their best then GATS has many high points. Lyrically they were at their best, and while THB is now seen as a classic (rightly), GATS is so very close to it. More a fading bruise in comparison with the raw gaping wound that is THB.

[who's responsible?]

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

Postcards deserved the reviews it got for I Think I Found It alone. Very underrated song in my opinion!

BTW - GW - Lifeblood. I love it now. Never used to.

[nayo]

The singles from GATS are ace! And the rest of the album is also good to me.
I think the reason why PFYAM sounds more soft and even dull (to some people, not me) is that JFPL is rather sharp, sensitive and acid in comparison to any other MSP albums (both lyrically and musically). I understand people who don't like PFAYM, but can't feel the same way.

[RookUK]

Originally Posted by who's responsible?

Can't agree Andy, lyrically it's poor in comparison with GATS (which is underrated IMO, regardless of what the band think). It's "not bad" in the sense that (in my opinion) the majority of MSP material is in a different league to other bands' offerings. It isn't their best by any means, but it's still good. SKON seems to be one of the more divisive tracks, but I have to admit that I love it. It works for me (with the exception of Ian Mc's vocal, which I don't see the point in - replacing JDB with him, even partially, is a downgrade.) The massed choirs and so on, love it.
The problem seems to be that every new offering gets compared to two of the finest musical creations of our (well, my, being an old git) generation - THB and EMG. In their past they have created some wonderful pieces of dark, twisted perfection and we judge the likes of PFAYM against this. Comparing the likes of SKON (and even the skin-crawling lyrics of Autumnsong) with Faster, PCP and the EMG era stuff isn't a fair comparison.
No doubt the new one (s) will face the same allegations of "they used to be good, but they're shit now", but frankly who cares. They provided the soundtrack to my adult life, and long may they continue.
TL;DR - Postcards is ok really.

I'm slightly confused by this post - you said you don't agree but you restated a lot of what I said! I like GATS a lot too. I agree that the lyrics are often better on it than on Postcards, but Postcards has some strengths over it too - such as, it doesn't have 'Gold Against the Soul' on it (one of the weakest closing tracks the Manics have made, for me) and is a bit more varied. I've always thought the band dislike GATS because of the way they felt making it (i.e. sold out, "under the corporate wing"), more than the actual results of the process.

I love most Manics music, and there's something genuinely incredible about every phase of their output. I certainly don't think THB or EMG are the de facto things to compare to because one is very difficult to compare anything to and the other is, in my opinion, one of less inspired Manics albums. Too samey, too straightforward.

[who's responsible?]

I'm waffling a bit today I guess, smashing my ipod wasn't the best start to the day....The point I was disagreeing with was your comment that Postcards was a weaker album "on a level with GATS". I don't see GATS as weak, though agree completely with the actual track; Gold Against the Soul is a let down, and the worst track on there and not even B-side material in my opinion (should have been swapped with Donkeys). They aren't hard to listen to by any means, and going back to PFAYM that's not either. It's not terrible, nowhere near as bad as the majority of crap which passes for music in 2013.

[Porco]

I still particularly enjoy playing The Descent (Pages 1&2) backwards.

Snes, sneaky bo ma ha!

[franny]

Originally Posted by Porco

I still particularly enjoy playing The Descent (Pages 1&2) backwards.

Snes, sneaky bo ma ha!

This is amazing, it sounds like power-ballad Krautrock.

[Marwood]

Originally Posted by RookUK

For me, the Manics are a genuinely exceptional band and when they have an "off" album it is still as good or better than the records most other bands produce. I think Postcards is very much about ageing gracefully, and admitting to not being quite as sure about things as the band were years earlier - and I like that aspect of it.

Yeah, this is more or less how I feel too. I have a 'least best' Manics album, but not a 'most hated'. I like everything they've done, more or less. I adore most of it. The stuff I've actively disliked could probably be counted off on one hand.

Personal taste is an odd thing, really. I thought 'Postcards' was a brill album, though it was probably my 'least best' Manics album for a long time. I absolutely adored 'Hazelton Avenue', which most people here seem to dislike. I thought the 'one last shot at mass communication' stuff was a brilliant Manics conceit, and sums up everything that makes this band so much fun. And I think SATT is absolutely fantastic too, one of my favourites. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Phil C

Oh, and I note people are belly-aching about the use of horns on the next album already, like they did when gospel choirs were mentioned as featuring on 'Postcards'. Frankly, a lot of the haters of 'Postcards' seemed to have decided to hate it in advance. And at the same time people are describing the band as uninspired and musically conservative - terms which seem at times to describe their fan-base more accurately that it does the band themselves.

I think there's a lot of truth in this, yeah. I think the backlash against 'Postcards' did begin as soon as we first heard about it, and the second I read the word 'horns' in a recent interview, I knew what the response would be like online. There's a whole lot of comments elsewhere on FD criticising the new album for it's acoustic direction and the use of horns when, really, we know bugger all about how they're used at this point (and the Manics have a track record for less-than-representative descriptions of upcoming material anyway). To a degree that's just fan passion (we want it to be good and worry about any random element that might derail that) and I'm not sure I can justly criticise anyone else for musical conservatism anyway - there are certain genres I wouldn't touch with a bargepole - but it's still a shame.

I'm not sure if any of it really matters though, and I'm not convinced it paints an accurate picture of fan opinion anyway. There's a thing that happens on the internet (in life generally, but the internet especially) where people only really speak up when they're unhappy. When they're satisfied, they tend to be less vocal, and that can skew perceptions. I mean, there's a perception here that 'Autumnsong' is despised, and yet I've always felt the audience response when it's played live is tremendous.

The same dozen or so FD members will rip into SATT and Postcards at any opportunity, no matter how tangential it is to the discussion at hand. They're quite welcome to do so, but I have to wonder do their comments really represent the feelings of the wider Manics fandom, or are they just a very vocal minority? I'm sure there are plenty who love those albums but either don't feel the need to enter the fray or are drowned out or ridiculed when they do. Though, bless, Gutless keeps on trying...

I think I've forgotten where I was going with this and I'm clearly rambling, so I'll shut up now. But yeah, that and stuff.