the lyrics editing... - Page 5 - Forever Delayed

ecureuil · #61 18-05-2009, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaboatman

The difference is that Richey was around to give his approval / disapproval of the changes then and he isn't now. It's no longer a collaboration. That's something the band don't seem to have gotten their head around (understandably). In a project like this the band have to realize they are curators. It's not about them, it's about the guy who's not there. If they can't accept that then they shouldn't have done it.

They can't go treating everything he's written as gospel. James and Sean are the better musicians, their input for how these words should translate in to songs is as vital to the process as Richey writing them in the first place. When I heard they were doing this, I was concerned they'd be too scared to mess with the lyrics, and just bring them over verbatim, which I don't think would make for a decent record. That they left the original lyrics printed for everyone to see, shows how much they're valued. They make for a great read and are presented brilliantly.

Kieslowski · #62 18-05-2009, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by amalthea

Agree with this.

It would have been nice if they'd chopped less of the lyrics out, but that's just my selfishness speaking.

Would Richey be happy with the edits?
He gave up any rights to have an opinion on these lyrics when he buggered off.

Good point.

Richey knew James always rearranged lyrics to suit the music, so by leaving the lyrics behind he was effectively giving James carte blanche to edit them as he saw fit. That said, there are a couple of them where you can't help thinking "that looks like a pretty complete lyric to me..."

I still can't understand the logic behind just repeating the verse for MASH, though.

BranCox · #63 18-05-2009, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieslowski

I still can't understand the logic behind just repeating the verse for MASH, though.

I agree. It's crazy. Some foolish person is going to have to ask them about it. Bagsy not me.

deadmartyr · #64 18-05-2009, 19:20

Just imagine if one of the band comes forth and states Richey left a further note in with the lyrics that said "Cut them up as much as you like."

ecureuil · #65 18-05-2009, 19:26

No problem with repeating the verse, but it's a shame the Hawking quote wasn't used. I'm sure it was considered though, and then decided it didn't work.

less than zero · #66 18-05-2009, 20:10

In the deluxe booklet on the page opposite JCEQT where it has the tracklisting, as the only titles left are the ones that made the album, it must have been recently that some were crossed out with felt pen, right? Does that mean the crossed out bits on M&SH and the one missing word on PA where done recently as well? I wonder what they were hiding? It seems a strange thing to do.

The Gutless Wonder · #67 18-05-2009, 20:11

The people who think they haven't 'done a good job' or whatever need to remember that the words are being put into song form so need to be able to fit in with the music, thus the editing. I've never had a problem with repetitiveness in a lyrics structure because that is how the majority of songs are presented, past and present. You can't please everyone but I think the majority of fans are very happy! And no, I guess the moaning won't ever stop!

Dancing Kirby · #68 18-05-2009, 20:14

I just don't like how the editing has taken certain things Richey was saying out of context and given them (even more) confused meanings. I would never do that to someone's words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

they haven't 'done a good job'

I'm shocked at you!

manicbill · #69 18-05-2009, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaboatman

An excess of purpose and usefulness in that post. Thank you.

I was quoting Hamlet to try and illustrate that ye may be taking this editing business a bit too serious?

The Gutless Wonder · #70 18-05-2009, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancing Kirby

I'm shocked at you!

Twisting my words Kirb? I'll see you in court!

mrsmanics · #71 18-05-2009, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by A boy called Rita

I do however, wish the line about vanishing cream was used

Richey used vanishing cream in the morning...

...And removed it at night.

Because he was worth it.

I've already said this, but the only song I really take issue with is WLW because of the obvious reaction the band must have known fans and the media would have to the edited version ("oh my GOD it's a suicide/farewell note!"). I'm not sure I can get my head around the idea of that particular edit, but that song aside I don't think it's our place to judge. They've made a fantastic album and they've released some of the lyrics and pictures etc from the journal Richey left. Considering how important these words must have been to Richey and the band, we should be glad we got them in the first place.

Midlands_Junk · #72 18-05-2009, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieslowski

Good point.

Richey knew James always rearranged lyrics to suit the music, so by leaving the lyrics behind he was effectively giving James carte blanche to edit them as he saw fit. That said, there are a couple of them where you can't help thinking "that looks like a pretty complete lyric to me..."

I still can't understand the logic behind just repeating the verse for MASH, though.

i agree with many of the sentiments expressed regarding the band being a bit trigger happy with the delete key, i would have liked to have heard more of richey's lyrics in Peeled Apples, JFPL and Facing Page: Top Left especially. However, i think on the whole the band have done an alright job in translating them into interesting and listenable music, as must be done, and always was done even when richey was present. well done boys.

in regards to M.A.S.H, i'd prefer to have the one verse repeated than see them try to sing "underground carpark at stonehenge" "dante III, spider robot, wount spurr, increased plastic surgery for pubic hair" which, to me personally, are terrible lyrics.

cherrybomb · #73 18-05-2009, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by less than zero

Does anyone else feel the way William's Last Words has been edited is possibly a bit exploitative/devisive? You could have made anything out of all those words, the lines seem to have very deliberately picked out to make some sort of 'suicide note', which to be honest isn't there when you read it as a whole

Yeah I think so too.

Sheraz · #74 18-05-2009, 22:54

we are very lucky that they decided to use the words at all

song structure means you cant always include everything (der?)

but the band respected / loved richey's words lots. hence the words they didnt use are being shared with us now via the booklet. we havent really got much to complain about therfore have we

the only thing that intrigues me is the ' left over songs '

30 in total., 14 tracks were used on this album.... we know that small black flowers, kelin carter, Elvis impersonator, removables, small black flowers were used on EMG and then theres judge yourself... so that leaves 11 un used lyrics.. * i think

Pedro8 · #75 18-05-2009, 23:11

"underground carpark at stonehenge" "dante III, spider robot, wount spurr, increased plastic surgery for pubic hair"

Hahahahahahahahaha, they are just awful, no wonder they weren't included. I think often the band quote 28-30 rather than thirty. In some article, maybe the NME extended one, not sure, they said that there were about nine or ten that they didn't use. A few were just a few lines long, so probably works in progress or pretentious ideas. I reckon the others were just not so great bar maybe two or three that I hope will turn up in written (if not songs) one day soon.