Richey's contribution to THB / his disappearance

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by SHR

And who said Richey left the JFPL lyrics to the band? Nicky and James? Has anyone else investigated whether this is true or not? I know it will sound crackpot to some of you, but does anyone even know what Richey's sister says or thinks?

Maybe the band were so desperate for inspiration they broke into Rachael's place and had a rummage. Maybe she fancied a change of career herself and starting a band. Maybe he just left these things lying around for absolutely no reason.

Originally Posted by SHR

So the Manics may have taught a lot of you to question the big wide world, but what about actually questioning the band themselves? Their version of events? I know how this sounds to people (conspiratorial and troll-like) but all I can say for now is that the truth will out eventually.

1. Elizabeth - Maybe it's worth asking the band in all honestly how they came upon the Bugs Bunny folder?
2. Takk - Richey could have joined another band and made them famous. The band were about to fade into oblivion before Richey cut 4REAL into his arm. And lord knows they wouldn't have gotten any gigs/interest if it weren't for Richey's letters to the music press.

Do you like any of their music at all? Did you notice the lyrics before you noticed the music? You're making Richey sound like a gimmick. Want a top ten? Cut your arm up. Want a top five? Disappear. Yeah, hats off to Richey's legwork with the press and labels etc but nah, he couldn't have made just any band successful, without James' talent even with Richey's businessmanship, they wouldn't have got far.

Originally Posted by SHR

Questionable. They have certainly contained his image for their own gain.
Wheel him out as a commodity when needed and downplayed him when needed. God forbid a film about Richey Edwards... remember them saying that? Turning Richey into a cult Jim Morrison figure and leaving those three potato heads behind! Strange how the table turns when a director, whose pockets they are firmly in, want to make a film about their lives.
There is a well cultivated, much regurgitated 'official' version of events, that Simon Prices and those in the pocket of the band are happy to back up, but beyond that is a version closer to the truth. As I said, laters.

PS: Interesting reading... for those who can be bothered:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Beatles-Sh.../dp/0330489968

Yeah, No Manifesto is coming out of some deep pockets... Not sure what the band stand to gain from this and it's been pretty well documented on here the struggles and drag out in making this documentary anyway.

People defending Richey will say stuff like why should he live unhappily just to please others etc. Similarly, 1994-1995 was one of if not the most difficult tome of James, Nicky and Sean's lives and revisiting that time through these gigs are fair enough, they've got total control over this. A film about Richey's life? I can see how they might find that uncomfortable to say the least.

Originally Posted by begging_to_be_cool

But if you have no self-esteem, no belief that your being around enhances the lives of others, no understanding of the fact that people do love you - no belief in the concept of love at all, in fact - then it becomes a lot easier to believe that you are doing the people you leave behind a favour by getting out of their way.

I hope he's alive.

Richey was an intelligent lad and everyone who's ever suffered with any kind of depression knows that from time to time their mind plays tricks on them. The band paid out of their own pockets for his stay at The Priory and I don't think anyone's such a kind soul to drag someone around with them for years if they didn't like them.

Originally Posted by Takk

Since it's christmas, go ahead and post them here .

Oh ok then, here's my reply to River Boy, up to him of he wants to post the reply he sent me:

Originally Posted by River Boy

I think you're simplifying this a bit. This criticism can be levelled at anyone who's ever acted selfishly through being depressed, or have attempted or committed suicide. That's a lot of people - Richey was also very complex emotionally that's certain and so justifying his actions to himself is his own business to judge.

I think the main difference there is, although neither of us have any way of knowing for sure either way, I'd expect most suicides to be unplanned. Sure there'll be warning signs and it's impossible to know what goes through someone's mind on the minutes or seconds beforehand, but I doubt that many people out anywhere near as much thought into their suicides as Richey did into his disappearance and I think that makes him worse. Not only has he deprived his friends and family of any closure, he's been so meticulous about it. This wasn't a moment of weakness or a cry for help, I think they could be forgiven. This, I don't know how.

Originally Posted by River Boy

Completely agree that disappearing can be interpreted as a selfish act but we can't demand of people that they live in turmoil in order not to be selfish or seek personal happiness. I know some very nice people who know longer talk to their families even though it causes a lot of hurt and bitternes.

I don't think that's really comparable. I could stop talking to my parents tomorrow without having them wonder if I'm alive or not

Originally Posted by PaulTMA

Is this part a joke?

Yeah it is, a crap one mind. The joke being that many Manics (particularly Richey) fans are extremely territorial and possessive over the band and sometimes know more about them than they know about themselves.

Originally Posted by Littlesue

This, not a lover of their lyrics at all, for me its about the music and James responsible for that

Yeah, music has always been what I've noticed first with the band, partly cos often the lyrics are indecipherable anyway :-P

[Glyn]

I'm rather disturbed by the lack of imagination being shown by FD here, shame on you all. Clearly the last thing Richey would have wanted is for his lyrics to be set to music (that had already happened for 3 albums now so he wasn't getting fooled again) so just how did the band get that folder? We know that he was a right old clever clogs so he would probably have put it the last place anyone would look. Unfortunately he'd already bagged that for hiding himself and he wasn't going to carry a bloody big folder around with him was he? (Think logically people) so my theory (and it's just a theory) is that he labelled it 'richard's big book of guitar notes' safe in the knowledge no-one would have any interest in that.

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by Glyn

I'm rather disturbed by the lack of imagination being shown by FD here, shame on you all. Clearly the last thing Richey would have wanted is for his lyrics to be set to music (that had already happened for 3 albums now so he wasn't getting fooled again) so just how did the band get that folder? We know that he was a right old clever clogs so he would probably have put it the last place anyone would look. Unfortunately he'd already bagged that for hiding himself and he wasn't going to carry a bloody big folder around with him was he? (Think logically people) so my theory (and it's just a theory) is that he labelled it 'richard's big book of guitar notes' safe in the knowledge no-one would have any interest in that.

I'm sure Radiohead labeled one of their studio demos under Jamiroquai thinking no one would bother having a look. Summat like that anyway. That's crafty but they've got bugger all on our Richey.

[begging_to_be_cool]

Originally Posted by Architect

Don't wish to be controversial, but I can't help but think that young Richard's lyrics are a tad overrated, as are the boy Wire's. Sure there are some great ones, but there's a lot of dross in amongst, including IMHO on THB. Just as well they edited Journal so well (apart from WLW which is a boj). Like somebody said earlier on this thread, the great strength is in James' ability to write guitar-based tunes (Postcards album notwithstanding).

I disagree. Love his work or not, Richey was a unique lyricist and in popular music they are very few and far between. This is where his reputation stems from and why I think he is rightly lauded.

No one writes like Richey, and (in my opinion) the band are always better when they are setting music (great music, that is as intergral to my enjoyment of the records as the best of lyrical flourishes) to Richey's words (or Richey and Nicky's together).

"Riderless horses on Chomsky's Camelot"
You could write a university thesis on the ideas contained in that one line.

[handbag]

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

A

Maybe this very intelligent and emotional and seriously mentally ill, anorexic, alcoholic young man disappeared knowinc exactly how it'd effect those who cared about him and he was absolutely fine with that. t

Richey wasn't seriously mentally ill. He was prescribed PROZAC. If he had some deep psychosis or incredibly deep depression (which would require something like ECT) he'd be on something stronger than Prozac.

He wasn't anorexic. He had food control issues and yes, he was thin, but that's probably a symptom of his depression (I'm really not trying to come across as some psychiatrist here, just personal experience knowing how depression throws up other "issues"). He drank a lot, but there's a quote where one of the band say someone at the Priory said Richey wasn't drinking as much as he'd said and they could tell this by his blood tests. He'd even given up drinking, even though that then left him the problem of how to deal with time being sober (not me being psychologist again, it's something he says in that "final interview" on youtube).

He wasn't as fucked up as people think. YES, buggering off is something you'd do if you were desperate to escape a situation, but it's not like he was catatonic, staring into space and unable to function at all.

I can imagine dealing with the pressure of touring and being in a band when you feel like shit would make you feel desperate for an escape. Also, being 26 and not really enjoying playing the guitar but it's kind of marked out that's what you have to do must've felt stifling.

Again, I'm not saying that in any way I have/had a hotline to Richey's mind, but those are my thoughts above. I can understand why he'd want to get away from the situation he was in. As for it being 20 years gone, people do say that the longer you're away the harder it is to go back.

I don't know what happened to him and only he knows (unless someone helped fix him up with documentation/whatever to get away and they certainly haven't blabbed). I'm writing this post only because it pisses me off that he's down as some major mental fuck up when facts really tell a different story.

[handbag]

Can't get edit to work so adding here that the band were having a generally shitty time on THB tour (they've spoken about it, so it's not specualtion), and who knows what relations were like between Richey and the band at this point. He wanted to leave but he didn't (the band said why don't you do lyrics and artwork but not be in the band, Richey said okay, then broke down and said no I want to be in the band). Getting away seems TO ME a way of dealing with the conflict of what to do with life - stay in a band with friends and be unhappy or get away and start again.

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by handbag

Richey wasn't seriously mentally ill. He was prescribed PROZAC. If he had some deep psychosis or incredibly deep depression (which would require something like ECT) he'd be on something stronger than Prozac.

So only being prescribed Prozac means it's not serious? Alright, we've all got our own subjective experiences and here's mine. Yeah, I've got my history of depression like I'm sure a lot of people on here. Struggle to pinpoint a time it started and struggle to remember not having to deal with it but we're talking over half my life. I'm 31 now, I think I was 28 when I finally have in for anti-depressants, it was a last resort for me and the way you're talking now is part of the reason why.

Originally Posted by handbag

He wasn't anorexic. He had food control issues and yes, he was thin, but that's probably a symptom of his depression (I'm really not trying to come across as some psychiatrist here, just personal experience knowing how depression throws up other "issues"). He drank a lot, but there's a quote where one of the band say someone at the Priory said Richey wasn't drinking as much as he'd said and they could tell this by his blood tests. He'd even given up drinking, even though that then left him the problem of how to deal with time being sober (not me being psychologist again, it's something he says in that "final interview" on youtube).

Ok, he had an eating disorder and he was malnourished. However either of us word it, he was in an unhealthy state. Depressed, nervous exhaustion, malnourished, etc. People give up drinking all the time and I'm pretty sure that for me, with the guilt of abandoning my friends and family, I'd struggle not to get back on it.

Originally Posted by handbag

He wasn't as fucked up as people think. YES, buggering off is something you'd do if you were desperate to escape a situation, but it's not like he was catatonic, staring into space and unable to function at all.

I can imagine dealing with the pressure of touring and being in a band when you feel like shit would make you feel desperate for an escape. Also, being 26 and not really enjoying playing the guitar but it's kind of marked out that's what you have to do must've felt stifling.

Again, I'm not saying that in any way I have/had a hotline to Richey's mind, but those are my thoughts above. I can understand why he'd want to get away from the situation he was in. As for it being 20 years gone, people do say that the longer you're away the harder it is to go back.

Well you say he wasn't as fucked up as people think, suppose again there's no way for anyone to know for sure, especially now. Like just about anyone in the public eye, he'll have had his public persona and his private one and in this case part of the private one being so private that none of his best friends or family saw what he did coming. Being fucked up doesn't mean being unable to function.

Yeah, the touring would've taken its toll on him no doubt, but it doesn't automatically follow that buggering off completely is the way to go about it. They'd already done Reading as a three piece. The band has survived Richey's disappearance, they'd have survived him taking a back seat or quitting. If it's stifling, quit the band. Yeah after 20 years it'd be nigh on impossible. I remember reading something a while ago that James said he'd struggle to welcome him back, not to the band, just as a friend, if he ever did return. Well words to that effect anyway. All we've got is imagination really and hopefully that's all we'll ever had but I'm sure if I were in James' position, being the last of the band to see him, being the one he was supposed to be meeting in the morning to fly out, I'd have, rightly or wrongly, gone through a roller coaster of wondering what I could've done differently, given myself absolute hell and anger at Richey for putting me in that position.

Originally Posted by handbag

I don't know what happened to him and only he knows (unless someone helped fix him up with documentation/whatever to get away and they certainly haven't blabbed). I'm writing this post only because it pisses me off that he's down as some major mental fuck up when facts really tell a different story.

I'd argue that being so clinical, ruthless and meticulous are also parts of being fucked up. Often with depression, in my experience at least, comes a disproportionate sense of responsibility and guilt. He knew there'd be consequences for other people with what he's done and if he's alive, he's living with that.

Originally Posted by handbag

Can't get edit to work so adding here that the band were having a generally shitty time on THB tour (they've spoken about it, so it's not specualtion), and who knows what relations were like between Richey and the band at this point. *He wanted to leave but he didn't (the band said why don't you do lyrics and artwork but not be in the band, Richey said okay, then broke down and said no I want to be in the band). *Getting away seems TO ME a way of dealing with the conflict of what to do with life - stay in a band with friends and be unhappy or get away and start again.

That's two options aye, far from the only two. Still, being in the band didn't make him depressed. Yeah the pressure added to his depression no doubt, but I don't know how likely quitting the band and disappearing would be to change that, especially when you're potentially compounding the guilt of the pain you've chosen to cause people. Yeah depression has its ups and downs but in my subjective experience, where you are and what you're doing only has a limited impact.

Anyway, yeah The Holy Bible probably wouldn't have happened without Richey but you could say that about any of em.

[raven]

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

I think the main difference there is, although neither of us have any way of knowing for sure either way, I'd expect most suicides to be unplanned. Sure there'll be warning signs and it's impossible to know what goes through someone's mind on the minutes or seconds beforehand, but I doubt that many people out anywhere near as much thought into their suicides as Richey did into his disappearance and I think that makes him worse. Not only has he deprived his friends and family of any closure, he's been so meticulous about it. This wasn't a moment of weakness or a cry for help, I think they could be forgiven. This, I don't know how.

Outside of those who knew him it's not a question of forgiveness though is it. It's always dangerous to speculate on another person's mind cos the only thing to know for sure is surely that we never really know another person. On what basis can we even speculate he planned to disappear? As with a suicide you can maybe see signs afterwards but plenty of things can have different interpretations. The only thing that seems to be known is that he was alive at least a few days after he left the hotel probably living in his car. Does that sound like someone with a clear plan or strategy? I have a feeling what may have happened, as does everyone, but as with a suicide it should be maybe hard to judge too harshly as whatever goes through the mind I don't think it's thoughts of hurting people who are close nor of even recognising that you can. Maybe it feels like rejection to those left, well of course it does, but I don't think the suicide, the missing thinks like that, not sure they think that at all, if you feel guilt then maybe there's a part of you that can be reached but if you decide to end it.....and I agree the decision probably in many cases is pretty quick....you've gone past considering others. Don't know what anyone else can do short of tying yourself to them 24 hours a day.

Further and more generally he was very much a part of the band, I am one of those who doesn't understand how anyone can just listen to the music and not pay any mind to the lyrics as both have always seemed an integral part of what makes them a band both with and without Richey

[River Boy]

Originally Posted by raven

Further and more generally he was very much a part of the band, I am one of those who doesn't understand how anyone can just listen to the music and not pay any mind to the lyrics as both have always seemed an integral part of what makes them a band both with and without Richey

I have a theory that lyrics, hence meaning, are what draw us back to particular songs when the novelty of the melody has worn off, or even after we've been through a phase of not liking the music through over-familiarity or shifting taste.

Which is why in 40 years no one will listen to Blur at all, but the Manics will still be highly-regarded.

[Little Troll]

SHR, if you know something all of us don't and you're so sure the manics are lying about the official version of events, please could you actually explain to us why you think they're lying? You seem so definite that you must have proof of some sort and you're welcome to share that. The reason we're all not questioning what they say is that we have no reason to think otherwise, nobody has presented some kind of alternative version of events and I guess it would be nice to hear it, please stop being so vague. I'm pretty sure Richey's family would have done that if it was the case. I thought part of the reason he was legally declared dead was so that they could release JFPL and I'm sure his family would not have agreed to that if they weren't happy.

If even the band don't know what the lyrics mean then the fans surely can't truly know what they mean and therefore the lyrics can't really be that important to the album because nobody understands them but Richey.

Although then again, I remember Noel Gallagher saying once (talking generally, not about THB obvs) that it doesn't matter if you don't know what the lyrics mean because every person singing along will interpret them in a way that means something to them and that's what matters.

Anyway I believe that music and lyrics are equally as important - I refuse to listen to instrumental songs and my some of my favourite bands are my favourites because they sing songs that mean something to me. But then if I just wanted lyrics, I would just listen to poetry and I'm not really into poetry tbh.

[AOfsht]

Forgive me for being peculiar (and lurking for years but rarely posting), but reading this thread has lead me to ask
Didn't he leave a picture of a house or something of the sort? One that nobody was able to identify?
I seriously doubt he'd leave a picture of a place as to say "Hey guys ,this is where i'm gonna be if you wanna come find me." but I always thought that was a little weird, and still it's not been published and nobody knows anything about it? Amongst other mysteries about his disappearance, of course.

[handbag]

Originally Posted by AOfsht

Didn't he leave a picture of a house or something of the sort? One that nobody was able to identify?

"Wednesday February 1, 1995

Prior to an American tour, Richey checked out of the Embassy Hotel in Bayswater, London, and left behind a packed suitcase and a note reading "I love you", a box of books for a mystery woman and a mysterious photo of a house for the band."

http://articles.richeyedwards.net/31jan98mm.html

I think it was James who said in an interview that it looked like a place you'd see in Bavaria, but it sounds like he didn't have a fucking clue what leaving the picture was all about.

[Takk]

Refusing to listen to instrumentals seems a little extreme, surely? They can be incredibly beautiful.

[handbag]

I can't stick instrumentals either! Maybe they're another Marmite thing?

[Little Troll]

Originally Posted by Takk

Refusing to listen to instrumentals seems a little extreme, surely? They can be incredibly beautiful.

Tbf i was over exaggerating a bit there. I listen to them but I just don't tend to enjoy them.