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  #1  
Old 21-09-2012, 16:59
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How important are the band's politics to you as a fan?

Quite often bands appeal to people in more ways than music alone and apparently Nicky's got a politics degree and he likes to talk about such things sometimes.

Personally, a lot of their stuff hits home for me. I agree with a lot of what they've said and I feel like I can identify with a lot of their lyrics. Just wondered though, how important is the band's attitude towards politics to you as a fan? Have they near enough echoed your own views, helped you develop your own, do you think they're full of shit or do you not give a shit?
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Old 21-09-2012, 17:09
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I suppose when a band are as political as the Manics, you get attracted to them as their views match your own.

I do agree with a lot of what the Manics say but I've gotten to a stage where I don't really care. Musicians are people, and they have as much right to their opinions as us so it makes no matter to me what they believe in. As long as they don't force them on people it's grand.
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Old 21-09-2012, 17:19
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I suppose when a band are as political as the Manics, you get attracted to them as their views match your own.
I used to think that but I've spent enough time in General Discussion to see a lot of exceptions to that

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I do agree with a lot of what the Manics say but I've gotten to a stage where I don't really care. Musicians are people, and they have as much right to their opinions as us so it makes no matter to me what they believe in. As long as they don't force them on people it's grand.
I agree that they've got their rights to their views etc. I hate to admit it but as much as I'd like to keep their views and their music separate, I don't think I could and knowing a band are a load of neo-nazis or whatever would be offputting for me, whether they try and force it on people or not, I think if I were a neo-nazi I'd be put off Manics. Ok, neo-nazis is an extreme example... I wonder what it's like to be pro-monarchy listening to Repeat.

But aye, they've been very important to me over the years. I was 15 when I got obsessed and I went to a school that was so shite that the only way I knew what happened in WW2 was by reading lyrics and flicking through a couple of books.
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Old 21-09-2012, 17:34
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whilst there's no denying a political slant to the band, they've never really been overt about it, have they? i recall Neil Kinnock introducing Tolerate at the Manic Millenium (sp) gig, but other than that i don't recall anything as obvious (depending, of course, on how you see a trip to Cuba).

if they were trying to "force" their politics on their audience, like a Billy Bragg does or to a certain extent Morrissey, then it probably would be off-putting. instead they just rather express their own views, opinions and what have you, with the implication being "like it or don't".

i feel this is getting muddled, so let me cut it short - the Manics philosophy seems to be to encourage their audience to think for themselves, not simply be sheep and follow what they believe / see things like certain other acts.

if James went off on a bellendy Bono / Sting / Phil Collins crusade then eyebrows would be raised, but you don't see them ever following or supporting a cause that they don't believe in and you'd imagine they'd get as actively involved as possible. something more, for instance, than flying first class to the nearest rainforest to stand around looking sad.
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Old 21-09-2012, 17:43
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I don't really consider them political these days. They don't shove it down our throats nor really sing about it that much anymore. Even when they attempt to do so - Golden Platitudes - I choose to take the song in a more personal vein.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:07
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whilst there's no denying a political slant to the band, they've never really been overt about it, have they? i recall Neil Kinnock introducing Tolerate at the Manic Millenium (sp) gig, but other than that i don't recall anything as obvious (depending, of course, on how you see a trip to Cuba).
I suppose it's only really something that comes across to the obsessives. Casual fans aren't going to know every lyric and seek out every reference etc. Still, I'd think putting Repeat out as a double A side is quite overt.

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if they were trying to "force" their politics on their audience, like a Billy Bragg does or to a certain extent Morrissey, then it probably would be off-putting. instead they just rather express their own views, opinions and what have you, with the implication being "like it or don't".

i feel this is getting muddled, so let me cut it short - the Manics philosophy seems to be to encourage their audience to think for themselves, not simply be sheep and follow what they believe / see things like certain other acts.
Yeah, I think you're right there. For a band that started out so sensational they're quite reserved in ways, nowhere near as outspoken as they used to be.

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if James went off on a bellendy Bono / Sting / Phil Collins crusade then eyebrows would be raised, but you don't see them ever following or supporting a cause that they don't believe in and you'd imagine they'd get as actively involved as possible. something more, for instance, than flying first class to the nearest rainforest to stand around looking sad.
Oh definitely. I don't what charities if any they support privately, but a lot of the time you wonder if it's more important to support a charity or to be seen to support a charity.

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I don't really consider them political these days. They don't shove it down our throats nor really sing about it that much anymore. Even when they attempt to do so - Golden Platitudes - I choose to take the song in a more personal vein.
These days, not so much. Still, I couldn't read articles written before I was a fan, when I first became a fan but they're all over the net now and today's new fans can read stuff that was published 20 years ago.

I see what you mean about Golden Platitudes though, lyrically I think it's a similar feel to The Everlasting and it wasn't until seeing them play it live and James introducing it as Nicky's pre-election speech or whatever that I thought hmm.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:07
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They've always been very vague politically. Sure, they are a political band, but it's very rare you can really make out what specific point they are making, or the politics they are following...at least since the mid 90s. Vague political references is nice in lyrics, and often I do identify with them, but they very rarely have much to say of substance on real political issues.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:12
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I guess I have gotten bored of the polemic and the hyperbole from Nicky. I used to love reading the old interviews and hearing about what makes the band who they are but I am finding myself more invested in the music and judging them as musicians rather than what they think about politics. Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:16
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They've always been very vague politically. Sure, they are a political band, but it's very rare you can really make out what specific point they are making, or the politics they are following...at least since the mid 90s. Vague political references is nice in lyrics, and often I do identify with them, but they very rarely have much to say of substance on real political issues.
I suppose it depends on the audience too. Like I say, I went to a shite school that didn't even teach me about WW2. For me it's an improvement, for proper academics not so much. And if they want mass communication it's got to be less academic.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takk View Post
They've always been very vague politically. Sure, they are a political band, but it's very rare you can really make out what specific point they are making, or the politics they are following...at least since the mid 90s. Vague political references is nice in lyrics, and often I do identify with them, but they very rarely have much to say of substance on real political issues.
This, you have said what I wanted to say only better than I ever could.
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  #11  
Old 21-09-2012, 18:21
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Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post
I suppose it depends on the audience too. Like I say, I went to a shite school that didn't even teach me about WW2. For me it's an improvement, for proper academics not so much. And if they want mass communication it's got to be less academic.
Yeah, but for me it's not about it not being academic - I mean look at how academic Richey's references are on THB and earlier....they were very snobbish and academic in some ways. It's more about how opaque and cryptic they are, or in Nicky's latter years, simply opaque.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:30
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Yeah, but for me it's not about it not being academic - I mean look at how academic Richey's references are on THB and earlier....they were very snobbish and academic in some ways. It's more about how opaque and cryptic they are, or in Nicky's latter years, simply opaque.
Fair dos, but what about the impression you've got or what you think the direction is supposed to be?
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:38
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Not arsed. Don't really care about politics in the first place, don't really care about what the bands whose music I enjoy think about the subject. The only way it affects me is that directly political lyrics tend to be fairly cringy and Manics have their fair share of those. Other than that, shrug. It's the music I care about, not their politics degrees.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:43
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They don't really have a political side. You can say you do, and throw in the odd reference to an individual or an event in history, but that's not political in the same way as someone like Billy Bragg might be.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:43
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I used to be more attracted to the politics at one point, now not so much. My views have changed over time:

Initially - (slightly ignorant) Yeah, they seem to really like their incendiary political slogans don't they?

Then - Wow, I'm really into their politics and their lyrics!

Now - Oh shut up Nicky, before you embarrass yourself any further...
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