Which album do you reckon the Manics HATE the most? - Forever Delayed

Tetsuo · #1 01-10-2010, 01:43

I would assume prime choices to be:

Gold Against the Soul
Know Your Enemey
Lifeblood

Some might say Holy Bible. I think they were disillusioned with how expansive This is my Truth became; ain't heard them praise it too much in the last half a decade. James compared that album and Know Your Enemy as salad and burger n' chips.

I'd say Lifeblood's probably their most despised as they rarely play songs from it whereas Ocean Spray's often played and GATS songs get an airing too. Their issue with Know Your Enemy might come from the response it received as they'd put a lot of work into Nicky especially lyric wise putting all of his views on American foreign policy only to be shat on by the press. Lifeblood just seems like it's all around hatred, even when they play one or two of the songs live it's not with the full gumption you'd expect.

Kieslowski · #2 01-10-2010, 02:27

Nicky's quite a fan of Gold Against The Soul, isn't he? I think it's just James who doesn't like it, although even then I think he stills likes some of the songs - he's never had much problems with playing LTD, FDTW and RITH live. I think he plays Sleepflower grudgingly at Nicky's behest, going by how he can't seem to be bothered playing the solo properly these days. He absolutely rips his guitar to shreds on Roses, though.

I'm not sure they actually hate Lifeblood, I think they're just disappointed with the way it seemed to be monumentally rejected by everyone, even though a lot of the hardcore fans really like it. After tonight's Empty Souls, and having rewatched that Jools Holland performance recently, I have to admit, I'm coming to the conclusion that they really aren't good live songs after all. Great album, but with the exception of 1985, none of them really have the potential to get a crowd going, which I think is why Nicky calls it "cold". It's a shame - several of the tracks could be rearranged a wee bit to make them work better at gigs.

Hmmm, I dunno. I think the easiest answer to this is the same as it always is at any particular time: the last album before the current one.

Tetsuo · #3 01-10-2010, 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieslowski

I'm not sure they actually hate Lifeblood, I think they're just disappointed with the way it seemed to be monumentally rejected by everyone, even though a lot of the hardcore fans really like it.

I have to say I think you are completely wrong on this. They apparently had a rough time with Visconti and were constantly changing songs around. The whole bad experience of making the album was then compounded with Sony demanding and veto'ing the first single. Look at the TOTP performance - none of them are interested, Sean fucks his drums on the floor. James said at the time he wasn't really interested in playing guitar and wasn't listening to music.

The point you just made about the reaction to the album was what I was talking about with Know Your Enemy but with Lifeblood they knew the writing was on the wall even before the album came out. Nicky spoke in subsequent years about how Know Your Enemy was his great big political album and noone gave a shite.

Lifeblood damn near broke the band up. In 2007 Nicky said something to the effect of "I don't think people realise just how close we came to splitting up after Lifeblood".

Elizabeth M · #4 01-10-2010, 02:38

It's definitely not Know Your Enemy or Lifeblood. In 2007 during No Manifesto interviews, Nicky said that the Manics album he listened to the most was Know Your Enemy. About Lifeblood, he said that the band is very proud of the album and were only disappointed that it didn't connect with people. It was also mentioned by Sean that the songs from Lifeblood aren't enjoyable to play live because it's so difficult to get them to sound right live, and that's why they don't play them very often.

Kieslowski · #5 01-10-2010, 02:46

I certainly could be wrong

I just got the impression from how they'd talked about it sometimes that it was more disappointment than hatred, and that the disinterest in playing them live was because they just knew they weren't working in a live setting. I thought James was going to say "yeah, that was a bit shit, wasn't it?" after Empty Souls tonight, but whatever it was that he said, it seemed more like resignation than "urgh! Thank fuck that one's over."

But if they really did come so close to breaking up after it, then yeah, I can imagine them actually hating the album as a result.

Kieslowski · #6 01-10-2010, 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth M

It's definitely not Know Your Enemy or Lifeblood. In 2007 during No Manifesto interviews, Nicky said that the Manics album he listened to the most was Know Your Enemy. About Lifeblood, he said that the band is very proud of the album and were only disappointed that it didn't connect with people. It was also mentioned by Sean that the songs from Lifeblood aren't enjoyable to play live because it's so difficult to get them to sound right live, and that's why they don't play them very often.

Did he say if they've tried radically rearranging the songs? Nine Inch Nails springs to mind as a band that sometimes plays very different live versions of songs to their studio versions. I thought Empty Souls and Solitude Sometimes Is actually worked quite well the way they played them at the Isle Of Wight festival in 2004.

Tetsuo · #7 01-10-2010, 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth M

It's definitely not Know Your Enemy or Lifeblood. In 2007 during No Manifesto interviews, Nicky said that the Manics album he listened to the most was Know Your Enemy. About Lifeblood, he said that the band is very proud of the album and were only disappointed that it didn't connect with people. It was also mentioned by Sean that the songs from Lifeblood aren't enjoyable to play live because it's so difficult to get them to sound right live, and that's why they don't play them very often.

Thanks for that. Always interesting to get some info from the horse's mouth.

I'm not surprised about what Sean meant with the playing them live thing. A lot of the songs have loadsa samples and just little bits here and there. There's very few that could be played just drum/bass/guitar.

A rejigging a la Nine Inch Nails would be brilliant!

Tom · #8 01-10-2010, 03:01

Empty Souls sounded amazing at IoW 04. There is no reason why they couldn't play that song live like that. I didn't know they played Solitude Sometimes Is though. Everything Will Be sounded great too.

Kieslowski · #9 01-10-2010, 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Empty Souls sounded amazing at IoW 04. There is no reason why they couldn't play that song live like that. I didn't know they played Solitude Sometimes Is though. Everything Will Be sounded great too.

Yeah, I used to have MP3s of both tracks, with a couple of girls clearly having worked out what the chorus for SSI was pretty quickly.

I thought Everything Will Be sounded terrible at Glastonbury 2003, but I absolutely love the recorded version. They should do more reggae-tinged stuff!

Tetsuo · #10 01-10-2010, 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieslowski

They should do more reggae-tinged stuff!

But they won't. Unfortunately all of our suggestions fall on deaf ears/blind eyes. They shall carry on doing the safe Everything Must Go kinda stuff for a while. Each time they try branching out and exploring it seems to blow up. Searching for the third version as James caled it.

ulstermanic · #11 01-10-2010, 03:55

Id imagine they hate Generation Terrorists most. Its not a very good recording and they hardly ever play these excellent songs live:
- Loves Sweet Exile
- Methadone Pretty
- Damn Dog
- So Dead
- Born To End
- Condemned to RnR
- Crucifix Kiss
- Stay Beautiful
- Repeat
- Four "Building Societies"

in fact if it wasnt for You Love Us and Motorbike Without Fuel they would probably neglect this album...

I Love it.

The Gutless Wonder · #12 01-10-2010, 06:11

I gather James thinks GT is hilarious these days. Don't understand what he was waffling on about Lifeblood being a 'third version of themselves' in Guitarist mag interview. Flippin' 'eck man! Just play the blimmin' songs WILL YA!!!!!

starstruck · #13 01-10-2010, 07:07

i suspect it might actually be THB, if they were asked to consider it. it's become a bit of a noose around their neck, for everything done since has, to varying degrees, been compared against it.

from the live shows i've heard, they don't sound all that enthusiastic about playing the stuff of TIMTTMY, bar Tolerate, but that could just be the way i am hearing it.

FacelessSenseOfVoid · #14 01-10-2010, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieslowski

Yeah, I used to have MP3s of both tracks, with a couple of girls clearly having worked out what the chorus for SSI was pretty quickly.

They were annoying although I seem to recall they were from this forum and I might know them, so apologies

I did have the mp3 of SSI though but it's on my old HD. Both ES and SSI sounded way way way better at IOW than they did after they were released on record and then played live.

FacelessSenseOfVoid · #15 01-10-2010, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulstermanic

Id imagine they hate Generation Terrorists most. Its not a very good recording and they hardly ever play these excellent songs live:
- Loves Sweet Exile
- Methadone Pretty
- Damn Dog
- So Dead
- Born To End
- Condemned to RnR
- Crucifix Kiss
- Stay Beautiful
- Repeat
- Four "Building Societies"

in fact if it wasnt for You Love Us and Motorbike Without Fuel they would probably neglect this album...

I Love it.

Well, they played Born To End on pretty much every date of the SATT tour so we had that one then and obviously on this tour we've had an acoustic version of Stay Beautiful (which was also included mid-way through the first SATT tour starting at one of the London dates I seem to recall).