Archives Of Pain - Forever Delayed

Noisy Cat · #1 21-09-2009, 21:22

Despite the fantastic guitar solo/bassline/vocals etc, I've never really felt comfortable with it's pro-death penalty message. To be honest I'm surprised at how popular it seems to be amongst many fans.

tzb · #2 21-09-2009, 21:29

Is it pro-death penalty or is it ironic? Or is there a tension/ambivalence between the two views in the song, a kind of agreeing and ridiculing in the same lines?

Some questions, there. I don't have any answers but I like it because it poses them, it has great imagery and a quality tune.

Noisy Cat · #3 21-09-2009, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzb

Is it pro-death penalty or is it ironic? Or is there a tension/ambivalence between the two views in the song, a kind of agreeing and ridiculing in the same lines?

Some questions, there. I don't have any answers but I like it because it poses them, it has great imagery and a quality tune.

It's never come across as ironic to me. Perhaps I'm missing something. "A drained white body hangs from the gallows / Is more righteous than Hindley's crotchet lectures" seems pretty unambiguous.

Mark · #4 21-09-2009, 21:37

I doubt Richey would have failed to see the irony in the line 'All I preach is extinction'.

starfucker · #5 21-09-2009, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzb

Is it pro-death penalty or is it ironic? Or is there a tension/ambivalence between the two views in the song, a kind of agreeing and ridiculing in the same lines?

Some questions, there. I don't have any answers but I like it because it poses them, it has great imagery and a quality tune.

Exactly the point in my opinion. It sparks debate and is an absolute belter.
You don't have to be anorexic to appreciate the empathy, intelligence and genius behind 4st, 7lbs.

Mr Richey · #6 21-09-2009, 21:49

I've always felt it's a song about questioning the value of justice against the value of life. It offers no conclusive answers, merely sets out the mentality of the argument. Should killers, in their turn, be killed? I don't think it's pro-death penalty anymore than it's anti-death penalty. It's simply raising the issue. And it does that well.

Clarence Pistoldinner · #7 21-09-2009, 21:52

I always thought it was Richey challenging his own liberal assumptions. Like much of Manics stuff, it's not so much offering an answer as posing a question.
IMHO.

Mr Richey · #8 21-09-2009, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarence Pistoldinner

Like much of Manics stuff, it's not so much offering an answer as posing a question.

Precisely.

starfucker · #9 21-09-2009, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richey83

I've always felt it's a song about questioning the value of justice against the value of life. It offers no conclusive answers, merely sets out the mentality of the argument. Should killers, in their turn, be killed? I don't think it's pro-death penalty anymore than it's anti-death penalty. It's simply raising the issue. And it does that well.

Well said. It's all about sparking discussions. It makes people think and it's still doing it 14 years later! Job done.

Mark · #10 21-09-2009, 22:04

As if the song wasn't awesome enough, I love the fact that the band can make the crowd chant back at them the line 'Give them the respect they deserve'. That's some pretty powerful stuff right there.

Dext37 Fielding · #11 21-09-2009, 22:06

I wonder if James is comfortable singing it?

Dext37 Fielding · #12 21-09-2009, 22:10

actually UEF asked James in 07 at the XFM session, 'what soings on guitar do you like to play, your own or other artists?' - Fantastic Question UEF.

James said Archives Of Pain because of the solo, so it was all about me me me me me.

Bad Faith · #13 21-09-2009, 23:01

I agree it's provocative but I don't think it contains a message at all, other than "This is ugly material but it's important and y'all should put squeamishness aside and give it some thought". You don't expect authors to necssarily hold the same views as the characters in their books or plays or whatever.

Bryter Layter · #14 21-09-2009, 23:35

I don't think Edwards was being ironic at all. I think he genuinely believed every word he wrote.
Whether you choose to agree with the lyrical content of the song is your choice, but that shouldn't deter anyone from agreeing how utterly brilliant this tune actually is not to mention applauding RJE for at least having the courage to express his opinions no matter how controversial they may have been/are.
Anyway, I think some of you see Richey as being far more liberal minded then he actually was. Certainly some of the opinions/views he shared with the media suggests he had liberal/left-wing views on some issues and ultra-conservative views on other matters.
I should imagine his political and social beliefs were kind of split down the middle really.

Slideling · #15 21-09-2009, 23:52

I don't advocate it, but I'm not sure why listening to it should make me feel 'uncomfortable'.