Why are Nicky's lyrics in the EMG, TIMT and KYE eras his best? - Forever Delayed

Europa Gluten Free · #1 21-11-2011, 10:04

Listening back to these eras recently, I really think that these were his best. Of course all the social-history lyrics brought them success, but I especially like all the neurotic lyrics of these times (Mr Carbohydrate, The Convalescent, Prologue etc). Did the weight of success following EMG and TIMT just weigh too heavily? Did he get to self-conscious and self-critical?

Heart2Heart · #2 21-11-2011, 10:12

Since he stalks the forums maybe someone should ask him.

Parma Violets · #3 21-11-2011, 10:38

I think PFAYM has some terrific lyrics on it ('Auto-Intoxication', 'All We Make is Entertainment') but broadly this is true... although I'm not sure I'd put KYE as part of his golden age, there are a few songs where he's practically spraining himself trying to sound like Richey.

Possibly it's a premeditation thing. KYE, SATT and PFAYM were all conscious efforts to get back to a past peak, either of artistic integrity or commercial success. Whereas on EMG and TIMTTMY he was free to write about whatever he felt strongly enough about, and let the music carry the commercial responsibilities.

UEF · #4 21-11-2011, 10:41

I dunno, IfWhiteAmerica and This is Yesterday were pretty cool

Glyn · #5 21-11-2011, 11:01

For me Wire's at his best when writing about MSP : no surface all feeling, EMG, enola/alone, masses, close my eyes, prologue etc
This doesn't account for underdogs being crap and golden platitudes being great mind!

Heart2Heart · #6 21-11-2011, 11:04

Isn't Intravenous Agnostic on KYE? I really hated that song, lyrics-wise.

Maybe it's because most of the time I'm listening to them on Youtube, but I don't think there's a particular era where Nicky is very strong and then very weak. He seems to me just generally hit-miss hit-miss when it comes to lyrical strength.

There are some songs that I really love but you have to admit the lyrics and topic are daft ("You Stole the Sun from My Heart" = I hate touring, I am a wannarexic for professional purposes) and some songs that have really beautiful lyrics but were accompanied by overly bombastic choice of music production that threw people off ("Some Kind of Nothingness").

Anyway, might as well ramble:

Really, SKON does capture a lot about the kind of emotions people left behind when a friend disappears really well. I had a friend who disappeared hiking, though unlike Richey they found his body, several years after. That search for that lost friend is a sick feeling you never can quite put away.

Crap, listening to SKON and feeling all raw and sentimental about the time I was searching for my friend again. I can't.

Deets · #7 21-11-2011, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heart2Heart

Since he stalks the forums maybe someone should ask him.

WHERE? WHAT?? HOW???

my favourite lyrics era is IKTZ - the moment where he became more self secure with songwriting as a making a whole song, where lyrics must fit the music so it makes a perfect piece of art.

poems in Blueprints from Exile are stunning as well.

starstruck · #8 21-11-2011, 11:31

1985 is the best lyric he has ever written.

Heart2Heart · #9 21-11-2011, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deets

WHERE? WHAT?? HOW???.

You mean like how to ask him? I DON'T KNOW!!! Maybe I could kidnap Faris Badwan or something.

Nah, it's just a general suspicion I have, unless his "people" stalk the forum for him. I just find it really funny when Takk said that he had "people" to bid for eBay stuff for him.

Flint · #10 21-11-2011, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parma Violets

I think PFAYM has some terrific lyrics on it ('Auto-Intoxication', 'All We Make is Entertainment') but broadly this is true...

PFAYM was a return to form yeah after the dumping ground of SATT, although I'd easily class both of those songs as some of the weakest lyrics on the album.

The reason why 1996-2005 (let's not forget Lifeblood here) is a great lyrics period for Wire is because he focused more on the introspective side of his lyrics rather than trying to send out a message. The overtly political moments are KYE's worst side lyrically and ever since 2007 he's been trying to create hamfisted messages over one thing or another. He's relaxed a bit more with PFAYM and managed to bring back some shade of the old flame, and I'm kinda hoping he'll keep up the ascent for the next album. I know he's all about POLITICS DEGREE and such but he's never been a good writer when it comes to trying to make a specific point or broadcast some message; he's at his best when he's introspective and finds topics from within himself, and all his peak 'political' moments like Tolerate or Design aren't cramming down a clear message down everyone's throats and instead they have space for expression and subtlety.

And yes that paragraph is spiced with a healthy dose of IMHO, obviously.

UEF · #11 21-11-2011, 12:33

He's a particularly big fan of the "love, love enough" school of writing now.

Symmanine · #12 21-11-2011, 13:14

I agree that EMG and Truth are his best works, though I'd actually count Lifeblood to up there as well.

KYE on the other hand is mostly terrible. The Convalescent and Ocean Spray (which is mostly written by James anyway) are the only really good lyrics on that record... I also quite like His Last Paiting for some reason.

KYE contains some of his worst lyrics IMO. Freedom Of Speech probably being the worst one.

tzb · #13 21-11-2011, 13:17

I agree with pretty much everything Symmanine said. Lifeblood is amongst his best, KYE amongst his worst. A third of Wire's lyrics on EMG are absolutely dreadful lyrically as well. Interiors, Elvis Impersonator, Further Away... no ta.

counterlanguage · #14 21-11-2011, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parma Violets

I think PFAYM has some terrific lyrics on it ('Auto-Intoxication', 'All We Make is Entertainment') but broadly this is true... although I'm not sure I'd put KYE as part of his golden age, there are a few songs where he's practically spraining himself trying to sound like Richey.

Possibly it's a premeditation thing. KYE, SATT and PFAYM were all conscious efforts to get back to a past peak, either of artistic integrity or commercial success. Whereas on EMG and TIMTTMY he was free to write about whatever he felt strongly enough about, and let the music carry the commercial responsibilities.

I'd agree with all of that, esp. KYE which is very poor lyrically because it's too self conscious and uninspired - Daily Mail / Holy Grail, etc.

Self consciousness has a lot to do with it, although PFAYM is a bit of a lyrical return to form. About half way through TIMT he just seemed to lose inspiration, which he didn't get back until PFAYM. I find most of the lyrics on LB, IKTZ and SATT dull, unfocused or cliched.

As a generalisation he's much better when he's writing about specific situations/subjects than emotions in general.

Bobafettish · #15 21-11-2011, 14:32

See I think KYE has fantastic lyrics, I never get why it's widely regarded as his best? Especially Intravenous Agnostic which is a great lyric. I think it's an album of great cultural/historical relevance, to me anyway

As for 1985/Lifeblood as his best lyrics?! "God is dead, like Nietzsche said"? "Tiny massive hands??"

I'd agree with the OP, but KYE is my 2nd favourite manics album, purely for the fact it's so messy and raw, I think the lyrics reflect that.

And Tolerate is his best lyric, I think that's fact, not opinion.