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  #31  
Old 24-08-2020, 11:54
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Ah fair enough, haven't listened to the original in years but I remember the vocal track sounding completely different.
I just listened to them both, the vocal is completely different. You can tell it's an older James on the LT version. Maybe he just re-did the vocals and added that guitar in the intro?
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  #32  
Old 24-08-2020, 12:15
robg1979 robg1979 is offline
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Totally agree, it's 100% a different vocal, clearly an older James as well. Wonder why he denied it being a re recording? Unless he was just fibbing or it escaped him.
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  #33  
Old 24-08-2020, 12:31
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Just wanted to drop in and say that I just recently noticed that "So Why So Sad" has an ever so slightly different single mix when compared to the album version - the ending is mixed differently and the drums end two bars earlier than on the album version. That's the version of the track that's used in the video by the way. It's not a real edit as such so I'd classify as an alternative mix! No idea how it took me so long to notice the difference.
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  #34  
Old 24-08-2020, 12:48
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Originally Posted by polar_bear View Post
I just listened to them both, the vocal is completely different. You can tell it's an older James on the LT version. Maybe he just re-did the vocals and added that guitar in the intro?
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Originally Posted by robg1979 View Post
Totally agree, it's 100% a different vocal, clearly an older James as well. Wonder why he denied it being a re recording? Unless he was just fibbing or it escaped him.
Perhaps the 'new' vocal was mixed really quietly in the original version, and then brought up in the LT version?
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  #35  
Old 24-08-2020, 13:06
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For reference, here are the different mixes:

EMG Era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv-GXAfB040

LT Era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLV1SvZaGA

The vocal tracks are definitely not the same unless there's a lot of filtering and pitch shifting going on, and neither are the guitar tracks.

One thought in my head, is that they may have originally released the demo rather than the full studio version which may explain the inconsistency between James's recollection on what's actually on the CDs. I know they played the song once or twice during the EMG tour (in Canada as an encore of all things) but I can't imagine they have so much love for the track re-record it years later. Maybe James hated the vocal on the original and wanted to airbrush it out of history.

Here's a live recording of the song from 1996:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1UnGdrgFuw
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Last edited by Routine Builder; 24-08-2020 at 13:16.
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  #36  
Old 24-08-2020, 13:38
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Originally Posted by robg1979 View Post
Totally agree, it's 100% a different vocal, clearly an older James as well. Wonder why he denied it being a re recording? Unless he was just fibbing or it escaped him.
I think this is the most likely explanation. It has to be a re-recording.
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  #37  
Old 24-08-2020, 15:45
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Hahahaha! That was too long thinking you were talking about the vocal to Close My Eyes being rerecorded.
Could always check, but it does mean getting on my hands and knees to the cobwebby CD singles graveyard.
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  #38  
Old 24-08-2020, 16:26
Glyn Glyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
For reference, here are the different mixes:

EMG Era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv-GXAfB040

LT Era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLV1SvZaGA

The vocal tracks are definitely not the same unless there's a lot of filtering and pitch shifting going on, and neither are the guitar tracks.

One thought in my head, is that they may have originally released the demo rather than the full studio version which may explain the inconsistency between James's recollection on what's actually on the CDs. I know they played the song once or twice during the EMG tour (in Canada as an encore of all things) but I can't imagine they have so much love for the track re-record it years later. Maybe James hated the vocal on the original and wanted to airbrush it out of history.

Here's a live recording of the song from 1996:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1UnGdrgFuw
I thought at the time that it was a new recording but after some of the mixing errors on the boxsets (Motown Junk outro bleeding into Sorrow 16, the wrong 'Whats My Name' veing used etc.) I'd say it's more than possible that someone picked up an alternative version from the archive and the mistake went unnoticed.

As you say , it would certainly explain JDB being nonplussed about it and also the fact that there was no promotional mention of it being a new version when LT came out.

Last edited by Glyn; 24-08-2020 at 16:30.
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  #39  
Old 24-08-2020, 17:44
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For me, it's that "growl" on 'Everybody's coming home for lunch these days' on the 2003 version, just doesn't sound like his singing around the EMG period.

He does that on the Glasto 2003 version too. Not Janice Long or HMV though
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  #40  
Old 24-08-2020, 21:36
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As this is bugging me for no good reason, I checked the credits for Lipstick Traces and Take the Skinheads Bowling has a 2003 publishers credit whereas the other covers credit date to when they were originally recorded. So definitely re-recorded rather than remixed, I guess the question is why? Probably not happy with the EMG version as James sounds a little horse (under starlight).

Imagine if the band had re-recorded tracks for other re-releases. I was always interested in how GT would sound with live drums rather than the programmed ones on the record.
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  #41  
Old 24-08-2020, 21:51
robg1979 robg1979 is offline
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
As this is bugging me for no good reason, I checked the credits for Lipstick Traces and Take the Skinheads Bowling has a 2003 publishers credit whereas the other covers credit date to when they were originally recorded. So definitely re-recorded rather than remixed, I guess the question is why? Probably not happy with the EMG version as James sounds a little horse (under starlight).

Imagine if the band had re-recorded tracks for other re-releases. I was always interested in how GT would sound with live drums rather than the programmed ones on the record.
I once asked Sean on Twitter if he could choose any song from the back catalogue to re-record and he said Motorcycle Emptiness as it was sounding dated.

I dont think we'll ever get a definite answer to the Skinheads query unless someone asks the question again going forward.

Last edited by robg1979; 24-08-2020 at 21:53. Reason: Spelling mistake
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  #42  
Old 25-08-2020, 08:06
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Interesting that they added real hi-hats/cymbals onto the 2003 version of Motorcycle to have that effect, but keeping many of the other drum machine parts.
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  #43  
Old 25-08-2020, 08:07
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
I was always interested in how GT would sound with live drums rather than the programmed ones on the record.
Stars & stripes yo!
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  #44  
Old 25-08-2020, 08:25
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So. Skinheads. I covered this one back in the day, so I listened to both versions quite a bit. Of course, my ears can be (and often are) wrong but this is my take.

I think the base of the 2003 version comes from the 1996 version (drums, bass, acoustics.) After that, everything else (rhythm electric guitars, lead guitars, vocals) are re-done. The whole thing is remixed to sound (for want of a better description) one step darker than the original which is very sunny sounding.

As for why, that's a good question given that it's a footnote in the bands history. I think there's a good chance that they thought "fuck it, why not" when they (apparently) had a tweak around with Judge Yrself to make that sound like 2003 them too. Skinheads is literally 3 chords, so knocking out new parts would be a matter of a couple of hours.

The other thing is, if memory serves, I seem to recall the B-sides to Australia being one of their early homages to the C86 indie scene. The mystery is probably more that, having made the changes to that song specifically, you think the band would remember something about it, given that Velocity Girls and CTMEOY were left untouched.

Anyway, that's what I reckon is going on in there.
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  #45  
Old 25-08-2020, 08:44
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Stars & stripes yo!
Really? I did not know this.
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