What if the Manics broke up after The Holy Bible? - Forever Delayed

VCK · #1 29-05-2013, 20:40

I've been thinking recently, if the Manics broke up after THB would the public perception of the band be different to how it is now? Would they be shrouded in some kind of mythology much like The Stone Roses and The Libertines have been? Would this mythology render them a much bigger name now than if they hadn't carried on and released career stunting albums such as Know Your Enemy and Lifeblood, due to inevitable eulogies from the music press, such as the NME, and fans who saw them telling people who didn't how "you had to be there"?

Just an interesting idea that I've pondered, much like how I've wondered what The Stone Roses and The Libertines would have been like if they hadn't split before they had a chance to become huge. Would they have released that album that would have catapulted them to superstardom, and would they have remained huge, or suffered a dip in popularity like the Manics did in the 00s?

Lament · #2 29-05-2013, 21:18

The Stone Roses and Libertines were much bigger than the Manics were right after THB. The Libertines had a #1 record and The Stone Roses had two top 5 records. Both had multiple top ten singles. In fact, both of those bands were nearly as big at their peak as the Manics were at theirs.

AK47 · #3 29-05-2013, 22:27

No Autumnsong?

Nature's Discontent · #4 29-05-2013, 22:28

They would have become like Nirvana, complete with Sean forming a new band where he's the lead singer and guitarist

who's responsible? · #5 30-05-2013, 08:29

Interesting thought really.

I'd suggest they would have ended up an obscure footnote to the music of the early 90s. You have to take into account the fact that THB didn't exactly sell well, and it was only with the commercial success of EMG that they "got big" (if they ever really did). THB wasn't particularly well received; let's be honest, it was competing against the emergence of britpop acts. Oasis were releasing Definitely Maybe around the same time, yelling about Cigarettes and Alcohol at the same time MSP were singing about death camps. Speaking as a fan at that time, when THB was released it didn't really do it for me to the extent that GATS did. It was so dark that it took a while before I "got it" (and it was sharing my CD player with NIN's "The Downward Spiral" at the time, not exactly light and fluffy, but a lot easier to play than THB was),

From a personal view, they would have been just another band "I used to be into" in my early 20s, and I wouldn't have the same feelings about them as I actually do now. If they'd quit after THB they would not have been the providers of the soundtrack to my life that they have become, and my life would have been a little bit more empty for it.

Looking at it from the rock and roll myth perspective, what their status would have been would have been dependent on Richey. If they'd produced THB, then called it a day and Richey had managed to sort his head out then they would be one of many bands who flew too close to the sun, and got their wings melted by fame, then went off to live with their dogs somewhere. If the Richey story ended the same way, with his disappearance and then the band calling it a day, then they'd have ended up surrounded by mythology, the music press would be bringing them up periodically and asking "what if..?", and I don't think anyone would have blamed them for quitting at that point. As a fan at the time I didn't think they would carry on, they had basically imploded under the weight of their own product, but if they had quit, they'd have been remembered as a band who produced one damn fine album (THB) and a couple of pretty good ones, but were destroyed by the effort of making it. They hadn't really had the commercial success to be mythologised to the extent that the Roses were.

Must admit I'm liking ND's idea about Sean; think Richey's lyrics were dark? Imagine Sean's.......... (shudders in fear)...

Dac X Lee · #6 30-05-2013, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nature's Discontent

They would have become like Nirvana, complete with Sean forming a new band where he's the lead singer and guitarist

I think I quite agree with this.
But reading biographies and interviews, I think James would be the one to continue his career, if it's true his dream was that of becomming a rock star, after he gave up to be the next Napoleon.

tzb · #7 30-05-2013, 10:28

Interesting idea. I suspect as you suggest they'd have become more of a cult band than they are these days, as they'd never have produced the big popular anthems ADFL and Tolerate. I can imagine them reforming to produce JFPL as well, which would only have cemented that reputation further (it really would be the ultimate reunion record, whereas despite reviewing well it passed relatively uncelebrated by the mainstream).

It also depends whether we're talking a post-Richey split, or if they decided to call it a day when he stopped being able to play live etc. It can't be denied his disappearance has played a large part in forming their "cult" legacy.

The Gutless Wonder · #8 30-05-2013, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK47

No Autumnsong?

The reason they HAD to carry on!

Nature's Discontent · #9 30-05-2013, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dac X Lee

I think I quite agree with this.
But reading biographies and interviews, I think James would be the one to continue his career, if it's true his dream was that of becomming a rock star, after he gave up to be the next Napoleon.

On a more serious note, yes I'd agree with this. I reckon James would have done a couple of solo albums, along with producing the odd album like he would go on to do anyway with Northern Uproar.

With the band, I reckon they would still have become mythologised, but not any more so than they are now, as they would have remained slightly more unknown and obscure to the mainstream; and more people would have forgotten about them, like some of the other early/mid-90s bands they shared the same small level of success with.

Lone Architect · #10 30-05-2013, 15:45

I possibly wouldn't be here. Not cos I don't like THB, GATS and GT, but because EMG was the first album I heard and I just don't think I'd have listened to any Manics at all until I was much older if it hadn't been for EMG/TIMT.

So yeah, glad they carried on.

VCK · #11 30-05-2013, 15:58

Some interesting replies here. I was too young to make any commentary on what their presence was like in the media so it's quite interesting to see. I always thought they were slightly bigger than they were during the Richey period. I know they earned a lot of pages in the NME etc.

Bearing in mind though that The Libertines weren't very big until they released Can't Stand Me Now and by that point everyone knew it was over. So I guess a more interesting question would be, what if they split up after Everything Must Go? Releasing one final album before calling it a day, and going out on a high? Maybe then they would have had Roses level eulogies, having broken up at the peak of their powers after releasing the perfect pop record.

Manualex16 · #12 30-05-2013, 17:40

I wouldn't have heard of them.

Scarecrow · #13 30-05-2013, 20:38

If they'd broken up in 1995, I could imagine over time their story would become legendary, but I doubt that would've given them posthumous fame on a par with their late '90s fame. Would've made an interesting thing for people to stumble across years later, but of course, they just couldn't not make music together after that.

amnesic · #14 31-05-2013, 06:02

I'm not sure whether I would have discovered them. I got into them just before Australia was released, after having read an article about them in Select and thought "they sound interesting" and went and bought GT

bigboots · #15 31-05-2013, 11:27

They would probably have the same sort of mythology hype that Joy Division, Nirvana and The Libertines got. Because you can't predict what their follow-up albums would be like and its just a full stop being in top form. I guess the question is, should they have changed their band name like Joy Division did. The problem with that being that they didn't know if Richey would return some day. So it's completely understandable what they choose to do.

I think it's far more exciting to have all this great back catalogue of music though from the Manics. And they've still released great albums since then. Their physical image changed a bit. There is more of a maturity and mellowness to their post Holy Bible era.

James seemed quite nostalgic in the Holy Bible Anniversary interview dvd about being younger and things being exciting. I'm sure Richey leaving was quite a splinter for the band. But they soldiered on and didn't stop making music.