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  #646  
Old 07-03-2019, 11:31
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43 pages onf a thread titled "The new clues that suggest missing Richey staged his own dissapearance", first time I've clicked on it and we're talking about anti-semitism now?

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  #647  
Old 07-03-2019, 16:51
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43 pages onf a thread titled "The new clues that suggest missing Richey staged his own dissapearance", first time I've clicked on it and we're talking about anti-semitism now?

Have you ever heard the theory that any discussion on the interweb will eventually descend into the participants calling each other nazis? Well it seems to have evolved into any discussion ends up being about anti-semitism.
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  #648  
Old 07-03-2019, 20:18
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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If she/someone has a history of critizing Jews as evil generally then You have a valid point even if it’s not presented the latter way.
Does SHR have that?
I agree with you, but in terms of SHR, I have no clue about her beyond the fact that she's a known shit-disturber on MSP related sites and social media. I wouldn't like to comment beyond what I know. That being said, others have mentioned they saw some pretty questionable comments about wealthy Jews having a hand in their own demise on her FB page (Self-hating Jewish academics like Norman Finklestein have been peddling that nonsense for years and I can totally see people using that argument and prefacing it with, "a Jew said this so it can't be antisemitic!"), but I can't speak to that personally. Honestly, I'm fairly certain she's been reading these pages and she's probably getting off on people talking about her in any capacity so I've decided to just stick to what's contained in the book rather than giving this wanna-be provocateur any satisfaction.

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I've never had a solid stance on what became of Richey. I just don't know. I can't even say what theory I favour more. Again, I just don't know. But, since this discussion began, I've found myself wondering more and more about the two weeks he seemed to have spent just driving around and living in his car. You could say he was just revisiting old haunts he loved. But two weeks for that? In a country the size of Wales? It'd take a day or two, at most. As someone said earlier, it seems like he was waiting for something. A one-year passport could well have been it.
Yeah, I've never ventured a guess as to what happened to him either beyond the fact that I've always believed he staged his disappearance (I think most people familiar with the story believe that too) and I have my doubts that he jumped off the Severn bridge. Beyond that though, I can't say either way. I'd like to believe he's alive somewhere living his best life even if that means he's selfishly put his family through hell, but it's also a very real possibility that he's dead.

Regarding the driving around, I agree that he wasn't just visiting old haunts. IMO, he was either waiting around for something/someone or it was his attempt at disappearing, but he couldn't get it together so rather than going back to a life he hated, he took his own life instead.

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Also, turns out Rob Stringer isn't Jewish so just gets more bizarre but that's Chinese Whispers I guess. What's pretty ironic is that the 'source' might have been the fact that he received an award from the UJA Federation at which tongue in cheek jokes were made by a few people including the man himself and his daughters about the fact he wasn't one of the tribe, Someone saw UJA and put 2 and 2 together and made 5 (What? In-depth research there? No, just a quick Google, ha)
Well, there you go! Thanks for setting the record straight!


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In the Wales Online piece SHR says that Novel With Cocaine was left in the box for Jo as has been said before but whether it was of significance or just a parting gift is open to interpretation or at least not clear. So it doesn't sound like he did leave instructions.....I personally can't see any reason to give any credence to the Vivian story. If Nicky is supposed to be the source how was he supposed to know if he wasn't there? And it just seems ridiculous and with its implication that the band are keeping secrets spiteful. Why has it taken all these years before his sister we assume or SHR tried to trace her and when she did try aside from some remembered very brief mention by Nicky allegedly years ago there's no other evidence of her existence. It's tantalising.....but it's insubstantial
Yes, you're right! That book was apparently in the box. It was actually some of the videos he left - can't remember which one(s) exactly - that were not included in the list in the book. I find it interesting though that Jo wouldn't let the authors look at the box (this was discussed earlier in the thread) and it's contents as well as refusing to go on record now. It's been stated that she wanted to keep her memories of Richey to herself, but if that's the case, why allow them to quote her at all? I suspect that she either doesn't remember much of that period anymore or she doesn't hold the same views of him and his situation as she did then.

If Nicky said she was there that evening then presumably James saw her with Richey and told the others (that's the only logical explanation why Nicky would know this beyond the woman herself reaching out to Nicky which I doubt happened). I'm not sure what specifically is mentioned in this book about this woman, but if this information was passed on to other people, why wasn't it investigated at the time? There seems to be a lot of info surfacing 24 years later and you can't help but wonder why weren't any of these things followed up at the time and not just by the authorities?

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Can't believe that, like everything else, even the mystery of a missing Manic Street Preacher has turned into a debate about anti-semitism.

We've lost our collective minds.
Possibly! lol! I don't really see what the big deal is though. Antisemitism is absolutely on the rise again so understandably a lot of people are hyper sensitive to anything that might have antisemitic undertones. I suspect in this case though, the dislike for a certain individual has clouded some judgments.

Last edited by Bryter Layter; 07-03-2019 at 20:45.
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  #649  
Old 07-03-2019, 22:39
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Wasn't the one-year passport theory also put forward by Simon Price in "Everything"? I distinctly recall him writing about it somewhere. So, I hope SHR isn't passing this theory off as something new. Anyway, I seem to remember they could even be picked up at Post Offices, which is where David Cross claims to have seen Richey. If that was him, there could be a multitude of reasons for him being at a post office. But it's worth bearing in mind.


I've never had a solid stance on what became of Richey. I just don't know. I can't even say what theory I favour more. Again, I just don't know. But, since this discussion began, I've found myself wondering more and more about the two weeks he seemed to have spent just driving around and living in his car. You could say he was just revisiting old haunts he loved. But two weeks for that? In a country the size of Wales? It'd take a day or two, at most. As someone said earlier, it seems like he was waiting for something. A one-year passport could well have been it.
Me Me Me!! Vaiden. I just find the time baffling because of the toll ticket, items "arranged". in his house and especially given the 2 week time frame living in his car. Was he undecided, was he waiting for something. did someone else park the car? The
significanse of him/someone putting the steering wheel lock ?

It has also occurred was he giving away towards the end because he was telling them not to worry? I'm just really gone and had to get rid of things? As velocity girl described I keep pondering these things over and over.

Last edited by vaiden; 08-03-2019 at 06:36.
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  #650  
Old 07-03-2019, 23:48
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Also, turns out Rob Stringer isn't Jewish so just gets more bizarre but that's Chinese Whispers I guess. What's pretty ironic is that the 'source' might have been the fact that he received an award from the UJA Federation at which tongue in cheek jokes were made by a few people including the man himself and his daughters about the fact he wasn't one of the tribe, Someone saw UJA and put 2 and 2 together and made 5 (What? In-depth research there? No, just a quick Google, ha)
In reference to the book, it says that Rob Stringer had words with Richey during their last stint in the studio. It talks about concerns about the bands next step and financial losses. It adds that part of the problem/discussion might have been Richey's shaved head and striped PJ's look- 'the elephant in the room' that seemed to suggest 'a concentration camp vibe' (the books descriptions, not mine.) It specifically states that this might of offended Stringer because of Jewish family members. It's that mix of comments about money, control, holocaust imagery and Jewish family members that some readers have found dogwhistley. Others haven't.
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  #651  
Old 08-03-2019, 01:38
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Yes, you're right! That book was apparently in the box. It was actually some of the videos he left - can't remember which one(s) exactly - that were not included in the list in the book. I find it interesting though that Jo wouldn't let the authors look at the box (this was discussed earlier in the thread) and it's contents as well as refusing to go on record now. It's been stated that she wanted to keep her memories of Richey to herself, but if that's the case, why allow them to quote her at all? I suspect that she either doesn't remember much of that period anymore or she doesn't hold the same views of him and his situation as she did then
The box may have been long recycled and the contents scattered. Certainly the videos would be long redundant now. Maybe she's settled with a family of her own. You might offer a couple of letters, not wanting to shut anyone out so to speak but I can understand a reluctance to take a full part especially if that's her past now. From what's been said about the book it sounds like they've given maybe too much prominence to what they do have from her and to long ago conversations

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In reference to the book, it says that Rob Stringer had words with Richey during their last stint in the studio. It talks about concerns about the bands next step and financial losses. It adds that part of the problem/discussion might have been Richey's shaved head and striped PJ's look- 'the elephant in the room' that seemed to suggest 'a concentration camp vibe' (the books descriptions, not mine.) It specifically states that this might of offended Stringer because of Jewish family members. It's that mix of comments about money, control, holocaust imagery and Jewish family members that some readers have found dogwhistley. Others haven't.
Ah, thank you. To me it sounds like poor research and supposition to deflect from any criticism of Richey....which seems to be the book in a nutshell.....
I don't think there's anti-semitism there I think they're just trying to brush any suggestion that his image was belittling the experience of the holocaust victim, turning their experience into a fashion statement away by suggesting Stringer was particularly sensitive to that owing to his family. Rubbish clearly.
Is there any suggestion there to be sensitive about? I didn't see any 'concentration camp vibe' (?) just a man who looked very unwell. Again the writer seems to create a problem almost and then deflect it by turning criticism elsewhere unless of course it's all about trying to find fault and blame. Suggesting Richey was being told essentially he no longer fitted in with the band's future. The bands own accounts of Richey at that point paint him as happier, more relaxed than he'd been in months which at the time they were pleased about and only on reflection much later on did it make them wonder if whatever he went on to do he'd decided already by that time
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  #652  
Old 08-03-2019, 01:53
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unless of course it's all about trying to find fault and blame. Suggesting Richey was being told essentially he no longer fitted in with the band's future. The bands own accounts of Richey at that point paint him as happier, more relaxed than he'd been in months which at the time they were pleased about and only on reflection much later on did it make them wonder if whatever he went on to do he'd decided already by that time
That was very much my sense of the author's intentions.
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  #653  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:00
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That was very much my sense of the author's intentions.
Why the long wait? why 2 separate passports? Was he trying to say something but couldn't so he left things to the band and family? Maybe he wanted them to know he was still alive and not to lose hope? He just needed time for himself? or was he nice because he knew he was going to commit suicide and thought others would get despondent if everyone to discuss who sounds like a person that is ready. Maybe grasping at straws...

OR

1of3 people have admitted to suicidal idealization and more often than not because they have already designed to leave and attempted to attempt before and that the meds gave clarity and perhaps the strength to make up one's mind?? I personally don't think prozac med is the best along with treatment when in fact that is not entirely true as there are so many new meds available and coupled with good therapy should decrease depression
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  #654  
Old 08-03-2019, 08:18
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When I said, "That was very much my sense of the author's intentions," I was just replying to
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unless of course it's all about trying to find fault and blame.
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  #655  
Old 08-03-2019, 18:08
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Possibly! lol! I don't really see what the big deal is though. Antisemitism is absolutely on the rise again so understandably a lot of people are hyper sensitive to anything that might have antisemitic undertones.
Completely disagree, especially as far as the UK is concerned.

Racism gets talked about in the news because of the 'keyboard warriors' who jump on any context they can and, because society is so sensitive to proving it isn't racist, it's like we're all being required to walk a tightrope of prejudice, with idiots and idealists making up the judge and jury.

Most people I know have hardly met any Jewish people. I've never heard a single bigot whinge about Jews in the pub or in the football stands; they have other go-to sources for their prejudice.

There is one notable Jewish community - Tottenham - in the whole country, where there has been tensions. But one community does not characterise the country's feelings.

Outside of Tottenham it's a complete non-story.

(Or rather I should say outside of Tottenham and the Labour Party it is a non-story. But I don't think that extremists who love Communist Russia and tie themselves to the conspiracy theory that Jews secretly run the world really represent the country either. It's just a quirk that one of them happens to have become a party leader - completely by accident.)

Damn! I am now wading in on the debate. Never said a word about this my entire life.
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  #656  
Old 08-03-2019, 19:35
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I think politically it's like a deviation from the real issues, that are discarded because it seems they want to argue more about who is the most correct.

I haven't read the book yet, but Richey wore the striped pyjamas for Holocaust remembrance day on 25th January, before he went missing, which is mentioned in an article from October '95. He's obviously also empathising the Holocaust in THB.
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  #657  
Old 08-03-2019, 20:46
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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In reference to the book, it says that Rob Stringer had words with Richey during their last stint in the studio. It talks about concerns about the bands next step and financial losses. It adds that part of the problem/discussion might have been Richey's shaved head and striped PJ's look- 'the elephant in the room' that seemed to suggest 'a concentration camp vibe' (the books descriptions, not mine.) It specifically states that this might of offended Stringer because of Jewish family members. It's that mix of comments about money, control, holocaust imagery and Jewish family members that some readers have found dogwhistley. Others haven't.
Thank you for setting the record straight regarding what the book actually said. I can see now why some people were questioning it. Also "concentration camp vibe"? That's a bit of a loosey goosey description.

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Why the long wait? why 2 separate passports?
We don't know that he had two passports. That's just a theory being thrown out there which is supported by pretty much nothing. He could have intended to renew his passport, but didn't have time before leaving for the States. The driving around bit is suspect, but it may have been him contemplating things. I do sort of believe the story about him being seen at that newsagent (was it at a train station or bus stop?) in Newport by one of Lori Fiddler's friends. I think that's possibly the most credible sighting of him in that two week period. Then again, if he was on the lam, why was he having brief conversations with people who recognized him?

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Completely disagree, especially as far as the UK is concerned.
Well, that's your opinion and while I respect it, I don't share it. I'm not British, but I do subscribe to a few British news agencies online and the comments sections are usually pretty rife with antisemitic jargon that goes well beyond merely criticizing Israel. Yesterday, the Times posted a piece on how the Holocaust is being lost to history and among the same old tired comments about Zionists, one Londoner's comment struck me the most. He wrote something to the effect of, "They bring on antisemitism themselves by supporting Israel". Um, ok! Others were more concerned with playing the atrocity Olympics with their "whataboutisms" then acknowledging the holocaust at all. The same is true here as well and from what I can tell, in the US and the rest of Europe. While antisemitism may not be prevalent in Britain or where I'm from, it is becoming noticeably more pervasive and not just through rhetoric. Hate crimes against Jews are on a steady rise as well. Just because you aren't affected by something personally or in your community doesn't mean it isn't happening. That's a little like a white person telling a person of colour that because you aren't impacted by racism, it doesn't exist.

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I haven't read the book yet, but Richey wore the striped pyjamas for Holocaust remembrance day on 25th January, before he went missing, which is mentioned in an article from October '95. He's obviously also empathising the Holocaust in THB.
He wore it far longer than just that day. His last interview with the Japanese press was on Jan 23rd I believe (he picked up the reporter at the train station wearing the PJs under his coat) and there are stories of him dressed like that showing up in London and now it seems he was dressing that way during the recording sessions too. He more than likely was dressing like that to sympathize with the victims, but I think he also probably saw himself as a victim on their level as well which is perhaps why Stringer maybe had words with him, if that story is actually true. The man was clearly mentally ill and going through a shit time though so you can't really judge him too harshly, as far as I'm concerned.
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  #658  
Old 08-03-2019, 21:18
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
Well, that's your opinion and while I respect it, I don't share it. I'm not British, but I do subscribe to a few British news agencies online and the comments sections are usually pretty rife with antisemitic jargon that goes well beyond merely criticizing Israel. Yesterday, the Times posted a piece on how the Holocaust is being lost to history and among the same old tired comments about Zionists, one Londoner's comment struck me the most. He wrote something to the effect of, "They bring on antisemitism themselves by supporting Israel". Um, ok! Others were more concerned with playing the atrocity Olympics with their "whataboutisms" then acknowledging the holocaust at all. The same is true here as well and from what I can tell, in the US and the rest of Europe. While antisemitism may not be prevalent in Britain or where I'm from, it is becoming noticeably more pervasive and not just through rhetoric. Hate crimes against Jews are on a steady rise as well. Just because you aren't affected by something personally or in your community doesn't mean it isn't happening. That's a little like a white person telling a person of colour that because you aren't impacted by racism, it doesn't exist.
Here's a recent article from The Guardian:

Antisemitic incidents in UK at record high for third year in a row

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...security-trust
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  #659  
Old 08-03-2019, 21:20
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Completely disagree, especially as far as the UK is concerned.

Racism gets talked about in the news because of the 'keyboard warriors' who jump on any context they can and, because society is so sensitive to proving it isn't racist, it's like we're all being required to walk a tightrope of prejudice, with idiots and idealists making up the judge and jury.

Most people I know have hardly met any Jewish people. I've never heard a single bigot whinge about Jews in the pub or in the football stands; they have other go-to sources for their prejudice.

There is one notable Jewish community - Tottenham - in the whole country, where there has been tensions. But one community does not characterise the country's feelings.

Outside of Tottenham it's a complete non-story.

(Or rather I should say outside of Tottenham and the Labour Party it is a non-story. But I don't think that extremists who love Communist Russia and tie themselves to the conspiracy theory that Jews secretly run the world really represent the country either. It's just a quirk that one of them happens to have become a party leader - completely by accident.)

Damn! I am now wading in on the debate. Never said a word about this my entire life.
That's more Stamford Hill than Tottenham. The same guys are all around up near Mill Hill too.
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  #660  
Old 08-03-2019, 22:39
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The Manchester Jewish community get stick and have done since I can remember. The Orthodox Jews especially because they "dress funny". If it's not full on racial slurs, it's casual racism. Source: I lived in Cheetham Hill.

This happens a lot.
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