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  #226  
Old 06-02-2019, 20:21
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Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
Thanks, guys. I knew I hadn't imagined that offer to Richey. And further goes to show that SHR is talking out of her arse. The fellas in the band did everything they possibly could.

However, I don't remember a TV appeal. I hope someone can shed more light on that.
I might be getting mixed up with just conversation in an interview... but it would've made sense to hold one at the time
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  #227  
Old 06-02-2019, 20:24
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post

I'm starting to think this book is more petty revenge than it is an attempt to reclaim him from the myth.

All of this is such a goddamn shame! This book could have really mattered to people with the right team working on it, but sadly the task of building his legacy has been handed over to someone so petty and selfish. Richey deserves better!
This is the way I feel about it too.

The good thing is that we all feel the same way.
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  #228  
Old 06-02-2019, 20:25
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That's a bit of a given, since (to the best of my knowledge) she has not once spoken publicly about Richey. Not in all the 24 years he's been gone and her name has been thrown around left, right and centre.

She was so enigmatic and elusive that some fans speculated that "Jo" was short for "Jones" and therefore, obviously, it was really meant for Nicky.

Passed the author by
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  #229  
Old 06-02-2019, 20:30
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She was so enigmatic and elusive that some fans speculated that "Jo" was short for "Jones" and therefore, obviously, it was really meant for Nicky.
One reason why I would love more clarity on how the box was ‘addressed’. Again, not coming for Jo, sure she exists and honestly, glad she’s been able to live her life absolutely away from all this. We are not owed this information or anything. But considering what we have been told, I just... HAVE QUESTIONS. Was it very clearly ‘for Jo’ or did it say something else and they just thought it must mean her? If it was in any way ambiguous all the more reason for it to have ended up in more communal archiving. I am entirely just thinking aloud/speculating here, not trying to imply anything!
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  #230  
Old 06-02-2019, 20:58
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Originally Posted by sofarsideways View Post
One reason why I would love more clarity on how the box was ‘addressed’. Again, not coming for Jo, sure she exists and honestly, glad she’s been able to live her life absolutely away from all this. We are not owed this information or anything. But considering what we have been told, I just... HAVE QUESTIONS. Was it very clearly ‘for Jo’ or did it say something else and they just thought it must mean her? If it was in any way ambiguous all the more reason for it to have ended up in more communal archiving. I am entirely just thinking aloud/speculating here, not trying to imply anything!
I get what you're saying. But there doesn't seem to be any ambiguity as far as the band and their people are concerned. They're adamant that the box was addressed to her personally, with just that note saying "I love you". Which is kinda heartbreaking really.
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  #231  
Old 06-02-2019, 20:59
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Was it very clearly ‘for Jo’ or did it say something else and they just thought it must mean her?
I've always imagined the box was actually all wrapped up to be mailed to her with her address on it, but them I'm sure he knew where the nearest post office was. I'm probably taking the "addressed to " part too literally.

Bit lazy if he didn't mail it himself, and it's like he left it there to be discovered as part of his "thing". Maybe he wanted everyone to know it existed and to ponder over it.

She lived in Crouch end, this "friend of a friend":

Lizz said...
A friend of a friend went out with him for a while- they broke up and its thought he jumped off the famous "suicide bridge" in London, near Crouch End where she lived. All just rumour perhaps! Ah the manics )
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  #232  
Old 06-02-2019, 21:02
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So basically the band are being accused of withholding information and even lying, whilst Jo not coming forth with the box is seen as "preferring to keep Richey’s memory for herself". Why am I not surprised....

Nonetheless, makes me think of Cardiff Afterlife.

"And yet I kept my silence
Your memory is still mine
No I will not share them
Acquaintance through denial

For I witnessed splendour
And evil that no-one saw
And I felt kindness
And vanity for sure
"

I truly have no words how bad and furious I feel for the boys in the middle of all this, for reasons so many of you have already stated. I just hope the book is pulled and - if it ever comes to that - SHR & co will be crushed in court.
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  #233  
Old 06-02-2019, 21:44
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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Originally Posted by sofarsideways View Post
These days we just call a SHR a SHR, you know?
That's what I was thinking! Ha!

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Weird, isn’t it, that we LUNATIC DELUSIONAL FANS!! are wanting to look at, accept and try and understand Richey as a full person, yet apparently we’re the ones perpetrating myths.
It's very sad! I've always been of the opinion that people are flawed and those who hold power, no matter how small, tend to be more flawed than most. However talented he was or a genuinely nice guy, he had his faults and those faults imposed on others.


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I do wonder. Would it not have made more sense for his family, the band, anyone with some kind of archiving going on to have it? I would understand her both wanting and not wanting to keep it, but I really hope it wasn’t gotten rid of. Hopefully she just didn’t like the look of all this and gave as little as possible, which would be a sound move it seems...
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply she purposely threw it out. I meant that things like that can get lost over time due to moving, maybe a partner didn't want it around, etc. How bad would it seem if she said, "no, you can't see it because I don't know where it is"? lol!

I think they've gone on record as saying that they went over the box with a fine-toothed comb and couldn't make sense of it. Finally, they respected his wishes and passed it on to her. You're right though, perhaps someone closer to him should have kept it in case it jogged a memory or something.

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It was awful that incident and if anything maybe a missed opportunity for help....sure it must feel like that to many now...but it wasn't exploited or intended to grab a bloody record deal
I'm of the opinion that he planned the whole thing and he did so with publicity in his mind. SHR is right about one thing, the day he did the "4 REAL" stunt, they played to 20 people (Lamacq wrote about there being virtually no one at that gig) and then a few days later, there was a huge buzz particularly with journalists. As for the record signing, the contract was signed I believe a week after the incident which means a deal had already been in the works prior to 4 REAL.

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Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
That's a bit of a given, since (to the best of my knowledge) she has not once spoken publicly about Richey. Not in all the 24 years he's been gone and her name has been thrown around left, right and centre.

She was so enigmatic and elusive that some fans speculated that "Jo" was short for "Jones" and therefore, obviously, it was really meant for Nicky.
I've always been impressed with the fact that she's never said a word about him despite numerous people no doubt trying. I'm actually a little disappointed that she's broke that silence by giving them personal letters to publish.

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Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
...with just that note saying "I love you". Which is kinda heartbreaking really.
I find it more heartbreaking that he left a gift and a note for someone he knew off and on for two years, but didn't leave anything for his family and friends. He just left them in limbo. It's not Jo's life that's probably ruined now. She's likely moved on with her life, but his sister sounds like she lives in stasis. I think that's the real tragedy of all this. It was more important for him to leave a myth/a mystery behind than it was to let his family know what he had done. I know his mental state wasn't the best, but he couldn't have been that far gone if he arranged his disappearance.

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Originally Posted by jenvidg View Post
So basically the band are being accused of withholding information and even lying, whilst Jo not coming forth with the box is seen as "preferring to keep Richey’s memory for herself". Why am I not surprised....
Yep! Completely unfair!
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  #234  
Old 06-02-2019, 21:55
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I find it more heartbreaking that he left a gift and a note for someone he knew off and on for two years, but didn't leave anything for his family and friends.
As much as thought he was in love with her, if what's been told is accurate, he didn't love her enough to stop fucking groupies which was "meaningless" and "one iota away from a wank". That's often been given as the reason why she wouldn't commit to him.

It'll be all lies, though. Richey wouldn't do that, would he? He was sensitive and a deep thinker and not at all selfish ever.
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  #235  
Old 06-02-2019, 22:18
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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As much as thought he was in love with her, if what's been told is accurate, he didn't love her enough to stop fucking groupies which was "meaningless" and "one iota away from a wank". That's often been given as the reason why she wouldn't commit to him.

It'll be all lies, though. Richey wouldn't do that, would he? He was sensitive and a deep thinker and not at all selfish ever.
I don't even think he really dated her. I think they're reaching. There's no doubt that he considered her more than just a passing fancy (although telling Simon Price that she was the only person he had sex with in 1993 is both dishonest and well, a little disrespectful to publicly mention if you care about someone) and maybe his groupie ways did put her off considerably, but I doubt it amounted to anything serious even if he asked her to marry him. As someone already mentioned (I think it was Sofarsideways), the timeline doesn't add up unless she had an open relationship with him and was perfectly ok with rarely seeing him. We all know from very reliable sources that he was still chatting up chicks backstage prior to going into hospital and that in the days preceding the hospital, he was all alone in his flat without a telephone. Then he goes into hospital and presumably doesn't have time for a relationship. The only logical time he could have been in a serious relationship with her would have been Sept-Dec, but for most of that period, he was on tour. It just doesn't make sense. I'll have to see what kind of proof they have to back it up. I mean, it's possible they got this info from Jo, but why would she allow such personal info about the nature of their relationship to go public if she wasn't prepared to go on record?
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  #236  
Old 06-02-2019, 22:50
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I don't even think he really dated her. I think they're reaching.
He did sound like a lovesick puppy at times with these romantic ideas about what love was for other people (like being at Nicky's wedding and then thinking how he wanted to get married himself). I bet SHR had a good chat with Rachel about how he was incapable of relationships because he had Asburders.

He had penpal things going on with fans, and it sounds like that's what he had with her most of the time. Sounds like he was into her a lot more than she was into him (if at all).

Still, all these mystery women makes good copy, eh.

In time he more than likely would've found someone he could have a relationship with. He was only in his 20s and really busy. Having mental issues doesn't exactly help either. I can imagine for a lonely lad that seeing his three best friends in strong relationships must've been difficult at times.
Yeah, he was a complicated person.

A bit off track, but sometimes I wonder what people would make of me if I went AWOL and they went through all my stuff. You can write your own myth based on it all. My myth is a LOT more interesting than the real deal.
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  #237  
Old 06-02-2019, 22:57
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I find it more heartbreaking that he left a gift and a note for someone he knew off and on for two years, but didn't leave anything for his family and friends. He just left them in limbo. It's not Jo's life that's probably ruined now. She's likely moved on with her life, but his sister sounds like she lives in stasis. I think that's the real tragedy of all this. It was more important for him to leave a myth/a mystery behind than it was to let his family know what he had done. I know his mental state wasn't the best, but he couldn't have been that far gone if he arranged his disappearance.
You're right to and my earlier statement was in no way a denigration of what his family and friends went through. But he was clearly not well and his attempts to convey that last message to a girl who clearly was not interested was pitiful.

I too am glad she's never spoken publicly. She would only end up being blamed for his vanishing. People have a habit of blaming women for such things, especially if it's because they rejected the man's sexual advances. "If only she'd given him a chance..." blah, blah blah. It makes me sick. But I digress.
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  #238  
Old 06-02-2019, 23:48
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I don't even think he really dated her. I think they're reaching. There's no doubt that he considered her more than just a passing fancy (although telling Simon Price that she was the only person he had sex with in 1993 is both dishonest and well, a little disrespectful to publicly mention if you care about someone) and maybe his groupie ways did put her off considerably, but I doubt it amounted to anything serious even if he asked her to marry him. As someone already mentioned (I think it was Sofarsideways), the timeline doesn't add up unless she had an open relationship with him and was perfectly ok with rarely seeing him. We all know from very reliable sources that he was still chatting up chicks backstage prior to going into hospital and that in the days preceding the hospital, he was all alone in his flat without a telephone. Then he goes into hospital and presumably doesn't have time for a relationship. The only logical time he could have been in a serious relationship with her would have been Sept-Dec, but for most of that period, he was on tour. It just doesn't make sense. I'll have to see what kind of proof they have to back it up. I mean, it's possible they got this info from Jo, but why would she allow such personal info about the nature of their relationship to go public if she wasn't prepared to go on record?
I think it's very reaching/pushing, hence why I keep picking up her being called His Girlfriend. I didn't know about this being said to Simon Price, what is that from? If that's the case, then why was he saying in his last interview 'I've only kissed her once... twice maybe'?

Yep, twas I, none of the timeline makes sense at all. In the latest SHR interview she says Richey had 'broken up with his girlfriend a couple of months ago' when he went missing. So there's even less time for any relationship to have happened, like practically none. It's all accounted for/overlaps/contradicts itself. I'm not saying it was nothing, of course, but from these interviews it seems the book is just writing its own plot.

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As much as thought he was in love with her, if what's been told is accurate, he didn't love her enough to stop fucking groupies which was "meaningless" and "one iota away from a wank". That's often been given as the reason why she wouldn't commit to him.
See this is why I'm very much questioning his wording and their agenda. Love vs in love. He really sounds like he was trying to rationalise loving someone like he approached 'hmm, married people seem to be happy, if I get married I'll be happy' rather than, you know, actually finding a relationship that is conducive to marriage. Like, I get on with this girl, I can talk to her easily, she means something to me, but I haven't told her I love her... but I must, right? That's how it reads. Like, I've checked all the boxes, why isn't it working?

And if he cared so little about sex, why would doing it with one person or however many make any difference? And obviously, why would you want to do it at all, but that's its own thing. Oh, Richey Richey. You confuse me so.

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He did sound like a lovesick puppy at times with these romantic ideas about what love was for other people (like being at Nicky's wedding and then thinking how he wanted to get married himself). I bet SHR had a good chat with Rachel about how he was incapable of relationships because he had Asburders.

He had penpal things going on with fans, and it sounds like that's what he had with her most of the time. Sounds like he was into her a lot more than she was into him (if at all).

A bit off track, but sometimes I wonder what people would make of me if I went AWOL and they went through all my stuff. You can write your own myth based on it all. My myth is a LOT more interesting than the real deal.
It was all an ideal and not something lived... what was it he said about sex in that last interview? 'It's an experience, and that's not the same as life' or something like that. He was very aware that what he thought of and wanted vs what he had and had experienced had a huge gap between them.

It's a bit weird that Jo was meant to be around for awhile but no fans know anything about her really, I get she might have kept away from them/Richey might have kept her away, but there being next to no knowledge of anything about her at all is intense, especially if we're meant to buy that there was any kind of 'relationship'. Purely with him being busy with band stuff so much, for that to be the case you'd think she'd have had to be around the vicinity of other people following the band at some points. Or even if they were just out in Cardiff or something, never bumping into anyone or whatever seems unlikely. I dunno. 24 years ago, private shizness, etc.

Right?! You have to wonder what kind of idea people might piece together of your life from your posessions and the things you've said. It's so hard to really know someone's overall intentions or world-view no matter how well you know them as a person.

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I get what you're saying. But there doesn't seem to be any ambiguity as far as the band and their people are concerned. They're adamant that the box was addressed to her personally, with just that note saying "I love you". Which is kinda heartbreaking really.
No, I don't really think there would be, just a-wondering, you know.

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orry, I didn't mean to imply she purposely threw it out. I meant that things like that can get lost over time due to moving, maybe a partner didn't want it around, etc. How bad would it seem if she said, "no, you can't see it because I don't know where it is"? lol!

I've always been impressed with the fact that she's never said a word about him despite numerous people no doubt trying. I'm actually a little disappointed that she's broke that silence by giving them personal letters to publish.

I find it more heartbreaking that he left a gift and a note for someone he knew off and on for two years, but didn't leave anything for his family and friends. He just left them in limbo. It's not Jo's life that's probably ruined now. She's likely moved on with her life, but his sister sounds like she lives in stasis. I think that's the real tragedy of all this. It was more important for him to leave a myth/a mystery behind than it was to let his family know what he had done. I know his mental state wasn't the best, but he couldn't have been that far gone if he arranged his disappearance.
Ah yeah I get you.

Very much to her credit, and very respectful to everyone else involved too. Perhaps the letters she gave are ones of little consequence, you know, just to give them *something*.

This is another of the reasons why I wonder. It seems so odd to leave just one thing behind for one person, of all the people. Was some of it meant to be passed, on and he thought she'd realise that but didn't? Was it, as has already been said, just an intentional red herring to make everyone wtf? No idea, again, not implying, just typing as I think really... so many questions.
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Last edited by sofarsideways; 07-02-2019 at 03:29.
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  #239  
Old 06-02-2019, 23:54
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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He did sound like a lovesick puppy at times with these romantic ideas about what love was for other people (like being at Nicky's wedding and then thinking how he wanted to get married himself). I bet SHR had a good chat with Rachel about how he was incapable of relationships because he had Asburders.

He had penpal things going on with fans, and it sounds like that's what he had with her most of the time. Sounds like he was into her a lot more than she was into him (if at all).

Still, all these mystery women makes good copy, eh.

In time he more than likely would've found someone he could have a relationship with. He was only in his 20s and really busy. Having mental issues doesn't exactly help either. I can imagine for a lonely lad that seeing his three best friends in strong relationships must've been difficult at times.
Yeah, he was a complicated person.

A bit off track, but sometimes I wonder what people would make of me if I went AWOL and they went through all my stuff. You can write your own myth based on it all. My myth is a LOT more interesting than the real deal.
I agree with everything in your first paragraph. I think that’s likely what really was the case. And yes, mystery women definitely make for good copy! Lol!

I think I’m terms of a relationship, he seemed to live too much in his head for that. James once said that he was too much of a romantic...he thought life would be like it was in the books he read, but it obviously wasn’t. I think he just wanted perfection in a partner, but no one’s perfect and so he never found the right person as a result. Maybe, if he’s somehow still out there, he chilled on that a bit. I hope so.

Haha! Don’t go missing now!

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You're right to and my earlier statement was in no way a denigration of what his family and friends went through. But he was clearly not well and his attempts to convey that last message to a girl who clearly was not interested was pitiful.

I too am glad she's never spoken publicly. She would only end up being blamed for his vanishing. People have a habit of blaming women for such things, especially if it's because they rejected the man's sexual advances. "If only she'd given him a chance..." blah, blah blah. It makes me sick. But I digress.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to make it sound like it wasn’t sad because it is. If he truly meant it and didn’t just leave the parcel and message as part of the mystery, then that is sad. I just think what he did to his family is awful. No gift, no note, no anything for them. It’s beyond cruel.

That’s a really good point about her possibly being blamed for his actions. I never even thought about that, but it makes perfect sense! I wonder if she was ever conscious of that?
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  #240  
Old 07-02-2019, 00:07
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I've been rewatching a few documentaries as I've totally gone under full Manics spell with all this happening, and there's a few things worth re-mentioning from the Close Up one.

Nicky says 'we grew up together', talks about living down the road from Richey, their streets playing football against each other, calling him Teddy Edwards because he was 'this cuddly little fella'. SOUNDS PRETTY FRIENDLY. Like, we know this. We all know this. I can't believe we're having to defend it, but here we are. James also talks about 'wondering, when we were 18/19, what are we doing, four lads still holed up in our room like this?' 18/19. STILL holed up. FOUR lads.

Nicky saying they all bought into 'outsider chic' to begin with, but the rest of them grew out of it, while 'Richey just didn't have enough outside the band'. Again, I know we know this. Just repeating... for those... at the back.

Several very helpful insights from Terri Hall. This is where the 'Richey how are you going to get married, you don't have a girlfriend!' thing comes from. She attributed it to looking at her and Philip, and Graham and Sherry, and says he said he'd be married 'by the end of the year'. Which year? '93 or '94 surely. If the proposal thing is legit, there you have it. Super romance.

She also said she didn't think Nicky would want to carry on after Richey went missing, that he was the closest to Richey. I think. She. Would know. And she said 'Richey didn't know how to live and be happy' so he'd try to model it, and that being in the band was making him unwell but he couldn't bear the alternative.

Sean and Nicky both speak of the horror of seeing Richey in hospital and feeling they had to get him out of there - 'you're not going to get better here'. If that's what's meant by 'making him leave early to go on tour', then sure, honey, sure.

Nicky talks about their last rehearsals being a really lovely, happy time, and said that Richey was 'very cuddly', which killed me all over again. He also speaks about a Japanese promoter talking about 'losing honour' when they cancelled a tour - 'I don't care about your honour, we're not going to do a tour when our best mate's missing.' OUR BEST MATE.

He also speaks of going straight to Richey's flat and just waiting outside for him as soon as he heard he was missing, and being in ‘constant contact’ with Richey’s parents in the months that followed. He says the band have it easy in comparison to Richey’s family.

Sean says Richey had left everything behind in his flat, 'just taken off in what he was wearing'.

Apologies for a long post of paraphrasing from a documentary anyone can go and watch on Youtube and we've all probably seen numerous times, but a) some of this is worth bringing up again with all our pondering, and b) this is just from one documentary, from 1998, and it all flies in the face of what this book is pushing. Over and over they prove this shit wrong, with utter tenderness and honesty. I fucking love this band.

EDIT: Shadows and Words, Nicky says he’d had Richey’s lyrics in a bedroom cupboard since they were given to him (at the last rehearsals with the little gifts and things, as mentioned in the Close Up doc), and that James and Sean had facsimile copies. But SHR seems to think they nicked them from his flat or something. Stay tuned for more from Sofa Revisits!
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