#991
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Regardless of whether or not this is a good or poor LP this Arena tour was an abysmal choice, from what I'm reading sounds like how it was on Lifeblood, terrible crowd, songs didn't work well Live etc
Only difference between now and then is that the Arena's were more full then in December 2004. I didn't enjoy the NT night that much because it was the O2 and it's q dump but obviously that was Sold Out. What's interesting from looking at the gigs, in the last say 12 yrs or more they are not bringing in new fans, it's like the same old age range. Futurology was an excellent LP to me but it was never toured properly, they should have not done 2 LPs within 7 months and kept the THB separate. |
#992
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Same. It's the best one of the SATT Trilogy and I like it more and more with each listen. I love that each song is 'a single' in feel, can't wait to hear them live.
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#993
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Futurology didn't get the tour it deserved owing to the THB overlap. Now we just get the first single off it! |
#994
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It did seem like they were keen to love on to the THB stuff v quickly after Futurology. A lot of us thought it was a curious decision to go into arenas for this tour when it was announced and the two gigs so far might seem to bear that out. I’m really looking forward to tonight though, I’m glad they’ve been playing a decent chunk off the new album and if they do stick with horses and 4 ever delayed I’ll be delighted. I didn’t get a song for departure on the LB tour either so that would be grand too.
There’s a lot to like on RIF - I just hope that they enjoy playing a bit more than they seem to have done so far. The worst I saw them was in 2010 when they just didn’t seem interested, and the best was a year later when they were much more into it. The only difference between those two gigs really was their energy level. Whatever happens, I’m just glad they’re still making records.
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I may have told you this before, I could have been the King of Wales |
#995
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The "Vivian!" utterance is followed by a guitar melody that completes the melodic gesture of the chorus. People saying the chorus is repetative -- only one word! -- fail to make that connection. That it's a full melody started by vocals and then completed by the guitar line. (I can't understand how. Must be the same crowd who don't like Kevin Carter.) There are no such incomplete choruses on the album, it's there to give respite from the otherwise stocked-full-of-words refrains. There is, in fact, a full chorus in the song too, only it's saved for the end. Later, when backing vocals are laid atop the guitar line (in the penultimate chorus), it becomes clear that the full chorus was: "Oh Vivian, did you ever realize / Oh Vivian, the history you left behind" and so on. Only it was revealed in bits, as the whole song is: one fitting piece after the other, interlocking into place: the double time chorus into the sparser verse via the bridge, lyrics from the bridge onto the chorus later on. And finally, in the "solo" part an ascending little guitar line fills in the chorus completely, and remains there until the end of the song (every second chord change). I can recite all this from memory, without even listening to the song -- that's how structurally solid and memorable it is. Oh, and even the people who don't understand the craft it takes to move from complex + fragile to repetative + dynamic, like this song does, seem to understand the ascending / descending loungy melody in the verses. It's not exactly the first melody you come up with when you pick up a guitar at 16. This album is all about craft. Seasoned technical constructions, both melodic and production-related (soundscapes), need to step up because JDB-s vocals alone don't carry like they did in the nineties. A lot of bands aren't able to do that -- compensate for the loss of physical youth in their singer's vocal chords (this is usually what the fans mean by: the magic isn't there), and disband. They're not doing that. Tl;dr -- just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't technically accomplished songwriting. Last edited by Marat Sar; 27-04-2018 at 09:58. |
#996
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That was the most condescending thing I've ever read. 'Just because you don't understand' - get over yourself. Nobody cares whether it's a 'technically accomplished' song or not, they care about whether it's good to listen to and engaging on a personal level. I could write a 'technically accomplished' book and it could still be shit.
Also, 'stocked-full-of-words refrains'? Where? It's not like People Give In or HMLAH are falling over themselves lyrically in the vein of anything off JFPL. |
#997
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Last edited by roi; 27-04-2018 at 10:36. |
#998
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Marat Sar absolutely destroyed Suicide Aldi right there. Jesus that was brutal.
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I'm not gay... ... ... My boyfriend is |
#999
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He didn't, there's room for two different opinions....
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Stand back, I have political powers! |
#1000
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Great formal analysis of the song IMHO. Quote:
The tl;dr sums up the difference, which is really just pointing out that a formal analysis of the song writing is perhaps different to a personal opinion of whether it is good to listen to or engaging on a personal level more generally. If you didn’t ... ok? Some of us did... is that not ok too? What makes a song ‘well crafted’ is still open to subjective interpretation based on what one considers to be good crafting I suppose. But it’s a specific way of looking at the song and analysing it. It’s perfectly possible to think a song is well-crafted but, as you say, not think it’s any good to listen to or that it fails to engage with you on a personal level. Vivian isn‘t my favourite song on the album but I still like it a lot and I found Marat Sar’s post interesting, as apparently others did too. So it seems others do in fact care about the technical craft of the song to some degree. If you don’t then that’s fine, of course.
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'Those Manics are great mun ent'it!' | Miyazaki-San, Arigato | POPCORN! | PorcoTunes: SC=fdporco YT=PorcoForever | ---...but the pigs are getting into our garden, and just digging holes, looking for truffles or something "--- Last edited by Porco; 27-04-2018 at 12:29. |
#1001
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Here goes... I call it, Marat Sar You stalk the web with a new song in your head Some music theory is your only defence Iv heard this song but it dosnt make me smile Such a terrible shame That you live in such denial Marat Sar did you ever realise, The reason Vivian is so maligned? Oh Marat Sar Oh Marat Sar Oh Marat Sar Oh Marat Sar If you like this song then I guess that is your choice But I didnt like, the things your post implies Im not so stupid that I fail to understand That the theory is good But the execution dire Marat Sar will you ever recognise, The tonal shift in the chorus dosnt sound right? Oh Marat Sar Oh Marat Sar Oh Marat Sar ( On paper this song is ok ) Oh Marat Sar ( but not in practise yes oh yay ) Marat Sar, the defender of crap songs Tragically points out how I am wrong Oh Marat Sar Oh Marat Sar Oh Marat Sar Oh Marat Sar Oh Mrart Sar ( will you ever realise? ) Oh Marat Sar ( will you come to recognise ) Oh Marat Sar ( That JDB could not be arsed ) Oh Marat Sar ( To write a better guitar part?) |
#1002
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#1003
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Lol, touchθ Suicide Aldi.
I love Manics fans.
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'Those Manics are great mun ent'it!' | Miyazaki-San, Arigato | POPCORN! | PorcoTunes: SC=fdporco YT=PorcoForever | ---...but the pigs are getting into our garden, and just digging holes, looking for truffles or something "--- |
#1004
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Vivian is a weird one for me. Bottom of the list when I heard it the first time, and then shot up to the top of list when Ilistening to album again two weeks later. It's beginning to drop down a couple of places.
I think the music crafting here is fine. There are far worse offenders on RiF (I'm looking at you Distant Colours). My issue with Vivian and with RiF in general is that there are no layers to peel off. To this day, new nuances of EMG, TIMT and Lifeblood songs make their presence known to me. RiF is very immediate. I feel in the two weeks since its release, I've heard all RiF has to offer. The songs might be well crafted and structured but they're also hollow on the inside. There's very little depth. Judging by the interviews, RiF is an album that was made to tide the band over until they found their next source of inspiration. Hold me like a heaven wasn't even written when the band announced the album which for me is revealing. It's not their worst album but neither were they swinging for the fences. All this is said recognising that members of the band are adults with responsibilities which means they can't always commit fully to their creative passions.
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Stand back, I have political powers! Last edited by Routine Builder; 27-04-2018 at 13:03. |
#1005
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