Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #331  
Old 15-02-2019, 11:37
sim's Avatar
sim sim is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wolverhampton
Age: 35
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
SHR should have remained objective if she is first and foremost a writer ...
This is just it. The book claims to be dispelling myths, but it is just creating them. This isn't a warts and all account of anything. The rounded picture of Richey includes less pleasant aspects, as it would for any one of us. These are mysteriously absent. A sycophantic move? Increasing saleability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
Sorry to hear about what happened to you. I think on forums and well social media generally we can forget there's a person sitting behind the screen and when it comes to discussions like this some people may be bringing more of themselves into it than we always realise so we all should tread a little more kindly
S'fine, I only mention to show there's another way to think of it. I don't necessarily think people should be wary as such, just to be sure we're using correct terminology, and that this Richey stuff isn't something that only happens to bands. It's real life, and sometimes that gives us another angle with which to look at a situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
Anyway yes we can forget as fans or as writers that of course you can talk about it but it's not an episode of Broadchurch for everyone, it's not just interesting gossip. I could surmise Rachel feels the band have always had an outlet or platform for their memories and she doesn't have that in the same way....she's losing 'her' brother...
I think that's a fair comment, and absolutely reasonable to speculate it's one reason for Rachel to have a grudge against the band. There are so many potential reasons, but there's no evidence they have ever done wrong by her family, or Richey. On the contrary, plenty of evidence to suggest that they have been very generous in all ways it's possible to be.

We could go round in circles. The most basic fact is that SHR has changed her Richey/James/sex/relationship story so frequently (via blogs, publications, speaking face to face with people) that it's all just merged. This changing, merging, shows an author's writing should be, at the very least, taken with a pinch of salt. And for something that's supposed to be the absolute truth, that rather renders the book pointless.

Given that there's a co-author/ghost writer, and yet SHR has (several times) written to People Of Note touting her skills and intentions, makes me further doubt any altruism at all.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #332  
Old 16-02-2019, 23:01
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 5,717
After being reminded of that “rock star” incident in her book, I asked a friend if they could send me a copy of Emma Forrest’s “Your Voice In My Head” (After having read it, I personally wouldn’t recommend it. Despite having sympathy for her struggle with mental illness and the appalling way a lot of men treated her, I really don’t like her writing style at all. It’s dry and entirely ego-driven. I think you really have to have an appreciation for her as a person and her numerous famous/infamous boyfriends to find any of it remotely interesting) and I thought some of you might like to know what that contested story says. She’s talking to her therapist in this passage...

“I tell him about my first love, a man for whom I was most emphatically not his first love, or, indeed, not his love at all...He was in a rock band. I was a teenage music journalist. He sent me postcards, sometimes, not often, from tour. He sent me a couple of books. Memoirs of a Revolutionary by Victor Serge, arrived, inscribed with elaborate indifference. When I gave into him, he sighed and said, ‘We’re similar Em. We’ll always be the least attractive people in the room’. A sort of post-coital contempt. After we made love, he’d tell me the reasons why I wasn’t pretty and how he was special for wanting me. That’s when the cutting started.
‘I used to cut myself when I knew I was going to run into him, so I couldn’t take my clothes off. So I wouldn’t lose my heart to him. Though, of course, I already had.’
Dr R looks very, very sad. ‘Did that work?’
‘No, I wanted him so much, I’d go home with him anyway. And he didn’t see the cuts. He never noticed. If he did, he didn’t say anything. He just f**ked me anyway.’ I start to cry, amazed that the man who I thought had vanished ten years earlier, like Brigadoon, can still have this effect...Suddenly I want to cover my mouth afraid of breathing psychological germs, and get out of there, leaving my lovelorn teenage self in London, on her knees, before a man who cannot stand her.”
- ‘Your Voice in my Head’, Emma Forrest

To be honest, it sounds like an amalgam of both James and Richey. Perhaps for dramatic effect, she’s combined the two. I mean, who would be the wiser if she did?

All I can say is, if what she wrote is true, which ever one treated her in this way, was a massive prick! No one deserves to be dehumanized like that!
Reply With Quote
  #333  
Old 17-02-2019, 00:08
Velocitygirl's Avatar
Velocitygirl Velocitygirl is offline
Desire on its knees
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Belfast
Posts: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post

All I can say is, if what she wrote is true, which ever one treated her in this way, was a massive prick! No one deserves to be dehumanized like that!

Absolutely. That is truly shitty behaviour. Forrest has gone on record saying Richey never approached her for sex, or ever saw her "that way". But she was known to have been in a short relationship with James. So it was probably him.

For what it's worth, others have talked about going with James (they were groupies) and all stated he was the perfect gent throughout. But James was probably in a very different mindset at this time.

So, really, who knows?
Reply With Quote
  #334  
Old 17-02-2019, 00:33
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,363
Based on what??
Does she name James? Have you asked her directly? Really who fucking knows indeed
Maybe you could scribble Withdrawn Traces the sequel. If the first tosh sees the light of day o course

Why's the thread become the Sun??
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson

Last edited by raven; 17-02-2019 at 00:37.
Reply With Quote
  #335  
Old 17-02-2019, 00:58
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 5,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
Absolutely. That is truly shitty behaviour. Forrest has gone on record saying Richey never approached her for sex, or ever saw her "that way". But she was known to have been in a short relationship with James. So it was probably him.

For what it's worth, others have talked about going with James (they were groupies) and all stated he was the perfect gent throughout. But James was probably in a very different mindset at this time.

So, really, who knows?
Oh, I’ve heard that too and yes, a completely different time and mindset for him. Of course, one person’s word doesn’t necessarily make it true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
Based on what??
Does she name James? Have you asked her directly? Really who fucking knows indeed
Maybe you could scribble Withdrawn Traces the sequel. If the first tosh sees the light of day o course

Why's the thread become the Sun??
You know, I’ve always appreciated your contributions here, but this is completely uncalled for! No one is stating any of this as fact, just reiterating what other’s have said. I personally brought up the passage because it was mentioned a few pages back, I didn’t include it to shame anyone or spread “gossip”!

Man, it’s replies like this that pushed me away from this forum a few years back. I’m still not comfortable posting here because I know someone will inevitably take something the wrong way even though I feel like I do my best to explain my reasoning. Ugh! Whatever!
Reply With Quote
  #336  
Old 17-02-2019, 01:37
handbag's Avatar
handbag handbag is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 268
Yeah, I've always read that Forrest didn't have ~relations~ with Richey. He just sat there while she listened to him bang on about whatever. She said that the enigmatic "Jo" was a friend of hers though. If I'd thought the man I loved loved my friend I'd get out of the whole thing, but then I wouldn't be stashing away seedy anecdotes to write in a book I'd write decades later.

I wouldn't say this thread's turned into The Sun. We're discussing sex and relationships to figure out these allegations SHR's throwing around. It's pretty serious if she's going to start hinting at rum sexual doings in the book.

I find it interesting that this was posted on thisisyesterday a couple of years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #337  
Old 17-02-2019, 09:02
sim's Avatar
sim sim is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wolverhampton
Age: 35
Posts: 478
I'd be a bit guarded about saying who did/didn't - the point I had wished to raise was that the stories have changed by SHR.

Also worth noting that EF liked the company of many a rock star. No judgement from me, but to narrow it down even to one band is a bit of a stretch. I know the timeline adds up, and the account sounds very like someone we know of. But there are no names here.

I think we would all agree that the paragraph shared shows very poor behaviour. That's all we can know.

I reiterate: the changing stories to fit an agenda should make us suspicious of SHR's writing.
__________________

Last edited by sim; 17-02-2019 at 09:24. Reason: Clarification
Reply With Quote
  #338  
Old 17-02-2019, 10:59
hummingbird's Avatar
hummingbird hummingbird is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in a quiet corner
Posts: 18,949
Can anyone copy and paste the times review in here? You have to register to see the full article and I'm lazy

The interview in the Wales online makes me want to read the book just for the personal archive, family tree, what he was reading ...but then I see the bit about him not getting on with the others -and all the other nonsense mentioned here -and I don't anymore.
I know people have issues with privacy but normally a close family member or friend should be the perfect person to ensure care is taken when publishing such things. Personal papers have been published before...Virginia Woolf's diaries, Sylvia Plath's letters even Anne Franks diary and that was the diary of a child....considered a classic today, John Lennon's letters, - Yoko Ono has always been fiercely protective of Lennon's legacy. Kurt Cobain's journals..- publication of his suicide note shouldn't have been made public in my view however.
Having an interest in the archive does not mean the reader is looking for juicy gossip or doesn't support the band. Of course we support them. 1000%.

As for richey maybe still being alive , we don't know he wouldn't give permission today. Again revert to those who knew him best about what to publish.
In defense of this Jo, she's never come forward before..if these letters are considered 'safe' to publish then they probably are. Not everything needs to be deeply personal.

About leaving out the personal diary ...Richey had strong opinions on people and topics . In this age of Twitter Rage where people love to misquote single sentences out of context, that might be a reason why none of it is included. Or perhaps it contains entries where he's obviously struggling. Again , not appropriate to publish. It might even have entries where he is positive about the band. Not appropriate for SHRs agenda .

Anyway .. I think Richey more than deserves a decent biography. It's a shame we're not getting one.
__________________
IS IT MANICS O'CLOCK YET?
Reply With Quote
  #339  
Old 17-02-2019, 12:17
Velocitygirl's Avatar
Velocitygirl Velocitygirl is offline
Desire on its knees
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Belfast
Posts: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
Based on what??
Does she name James? Have you asked her directly? Really who fucking knows indeed
Maybe you could scribble Withdrawn Traces the sequel. If the first tosh sees the light of day o course

Why's the thread become the Sun??

Oi! Don't shoot the messanger, all right? It's been spoken of often and at great length that Emma and James were in a relationship. We've had eye-witness accounts on the appreciation thread. And her account in that book measures up with the time line.
Reply With Quote
  #340  
Old 17-02-2019, 12:40
Velocitygirl's Avatar
Velocitygirl Velocitygirl is offline
Desire on its knees
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Belfast
Posts: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by handbag View Post

I find it interesting that this was posted on thisisyesterday a couple of years ago.
Ah, that. That is, to quote Bryter Layter from earlier in this thread, "the Japanese friend of a friend of a friend."




On to other things:

I just realised I spoke to Sara all the bloody time on the old official Manics board. She used the name 4Real_03. Yes, she was a massive troll there, too. Now that's a blast from the past.

Last edited by Velocitygirl; 17-02-2019 at 15:53.
Reply With Quote
  #341  
Old 17-02-2019, 15:09
Routine Builder's Avatar
Routine Builder Routine Builder is online now
A self-made vacuum
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,013
Isn't SHR given special thanks in the introduction of EF's book?
__________________


Stand back, I have political powers!

Last edited by Routine Builder; 17-02-2019 at 15:33.
Reply With Quote
  #342  
Old 17-02-2019, 15:25
hummingbird's Avatar
hummingbird hummingbird is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in a quiet corner
Posts: 18,949
She does.. calls her her Girl Friday on the dedication page . Might download the rest and give it a read. It's pretty short
__________________
IS IT MANICS O'CLOCK YET?
Reply With Quote
  #343  
Old 17-02-2019, 15:31
handbag's Avatar
handbag handbag is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
Ah, that. That is, to quote Bryter Layter from earlier in this thread, "the Japanese friend of a friend of a friend."
No, no, no. no. no. I mean YES, that's what the story is, I mean it's interesting that some new person drops by that board and starts fishing for answers to questions. Sound familiar? *cough* SHR *cough*

Back to the sketchy alleged assault story for a sec, I remember that being one of the Ooo, maybe THIS is why he's done a runner theories going around.
Reply With Quote
  #344  
Old 17-02-2019, 15:38
Routine Builder's Avatar
Routine Builder Routine Builder is online now
A self-made vacuum
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,013
Not trying to be the anti-fun police, but this thread is kind of getting into the quasi slander arena. Whether rumours are baseless or not, it's probably best not to give them much airing here. Considering there may already be some legal attention given to SHR's book, I think we should not give grounds to have that attention refocused on this forum.
__________________


Stand back, I have political powers!
Reply With Quote
  #345  
Old 17-02-2019, 15:52
Velocitygirl's Avatar
Velocitygirl Velocitygirl is offline
Desire on its knees
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Belfast
Posts: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by handbag View Post
No, no, no. no. no. I mean YES, that's what the story is, I mean it's interesting that some new person drops by that board and starts fishing for answers to questions. Sound familiar? *cough* SHR *cough*

Back to the sketchy alleged assault story for a sec, I remember that being one of the Ooo, maybe THIS is why he's done a runner theories going around.
Ah right, I see what you mean. It could easily have been her and it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

But isn't she trying to portray Richey as some sort of latter day saint? I mean, the groupies he went with are being described as his "girlfriends" and whatnot, which suggests to me a blatant rewriting of history going on.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.