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  #31  
Old 29-12-2009, 02:27
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I don't find Too Cold Here to be "teenage angst" at all. Do people really find those lyrics cringe-worthy? I guess I just consider teenage angst to be far cheesier than TCH.
Sorry, this doesn't add anything to this conversation, but I'm just interested to know your opinions.
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  #32  
Old 29-12-2009, 02:36
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I consider them self-indulgent, but really, Richey often tried to avoid it I think, and focus on more 'important' things, but I don't think indulging himself in that song was a bad thing at all!
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  #33  
Old 29-12-2009, 05:33
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Actually, I think Too Cold Here is quite good. But this (as topical mentioned)

Quote:
There's nothing nice in my head
The adult world took it all away
and this

Quote:
Fall in love, fall in love with me
Nail a crucifix onto your soul
and this

Quote:
Our lives drift into a faceless sense of void
Everything of meaning becomes destroyed
and this

Quote:
Endless hours in bed, no peace, in this mind
No one knows the hell where innocence dies
are totally teenage angst fodder. I think these sorts of lines - and I stress, taken out of context - are where the accusations of being adolescent and angsty spring from. Especially because they're probably what teenage fans latch on to, in terms of feeling like they can relate to it.

Edited to add: and it's a shame that so much of From Despair to Where is indeed a bit cringe-inducing, because I try to walk in a straight line / An imitation of dignity - that's not adolescent at all, that's the epitome of demoralization, that's heartbreaking.

Last edited by vtn; 29-12-2009 at 05:37.
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  #34  
Old 29-12-2009, 05:43
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I think the crucifix line is mocking, not angsty, but that's interpretation. The LSE line just sounds like truism. You may as well call Motown Junk angsty, but I think both that an LSE have genuine atmosphere/emotions. Not a bad thing! Motown Junk in itself means a lot to me!

Last edited by Slideling; 29-12-2009 at 05:47.
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  #35  
Old 29-12-2009, 06:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richian View Post
I think the crucifix line is mocking, not angsty, but that's interpretation.
Hm I'm not sure, Richey did like comparing himself to Jesus (see Doors Closing Slowly...) But I agree with you, I think it's largely because these lines are being taken out of context that they're being perceived in a certain way. They're easy to quote where a lot of Richey's other lyrics are more abstruse.
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  #36  
Old 29-12-2009, 06:25
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I mean mocking in the sense that Crucifix Kiss is an 'I despise religion' song (Simon Price put it more moderately as 'Secular song', but IMO it's quite hateful as well.)
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  #37  
Old 29-12-2009, 06:32
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Yeah, I think it's about the way Richey perceives religion as futile, mind-controlling, and damaging. But in another sense it might be about cults of fame - I think there's also a thread going on about the censorship of music, and making the choice to be a free thinker which is both freeing and damning...
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  #38  
Old 29-12-2009, 06:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtn View Post
Yeah, I think it's about the way Richey perceives religion as futile, mind-controlling, and damaging. But in another sense it might be about cults of fame - I think there's also a thread going on about the censorship of music, and making the choice to be a free thinker which is both freeing and damning...
So a bit like JFPL-song?
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  #39  
Old 29-12-2009, 06:48
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So a bit like JFPL-song?
Yes, probably!
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  #40  
Old 29-12-2009, 06:50
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  #41  
Old 31-12-2009, 11:54
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Hang on, what's with the slating of Too Cold Here? "Prison it's only four walls but sometimes, the mind is the smallest prison of all" and "It's easier to make love to a stranger than to ask a friend to call", they demonstrate brillantly Richey's knack for clear, concise perceptions amidst his confusion, and he phrases them beautifully. Okay, perhaps you can't identify with what he's saying, but me being someone who can (actually, I was there two weeks ago with the second line, very much so), I love it. It's not teenage angst, it's genuine, matured, self-dissapointed sadness.
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  #42  
Old 31-12-2009, 11:56
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For me those are two of the most hackneyed, unoriginal conceptions of "the despair of life" in the Manics' whole back catalogue. Both very, very generic teenage angst imo.
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  #43  
Old 31-12-2009, 11:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
Hang on, what's with the slating of Too Cold Here? "Prison it's only four walls but sometimes, the mind is the smallest prison of all" and "It's easier to make love to a stranger than to ask a friend to call", they demonstrate brillantly Richey's knack for clear, concise perceptions amidst his confusion, and he phrases them beautifully. Okay, perhaps you can't identify with what he's saying, but me being someone who can (actually, I was there two weeks ago with the second line, very much so), I love it. It's not teenage angst, it's genuine, matured, self-dissapointed sadness.
I couldn't agree with you more.
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  #44  
Old 31-12-2009, 16:10
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But 'self-indulgent' isn't the same as bad song...
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