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  #1006  
Old 27-04-2018, 13:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout Finch View Post
It's not the technical analysis of the song I particularly mind to be honest, it's the whole tone of the post being so up their own arse, condescending, and judgemental. You can discuss a song technically without sounding like you think yourself superior to others reading it. It was very 'you little people just don't get it but I do and therefore you're wrong'.
I can kind of see where you’re coming from but it didn’t come across as all that condescending or judgemental to me. I guess a few choices of phrase are a little unnecessarily combative and don’t help the argument. Maybe I’d feel more as you do about the post if I didn’t rate the song generally, as I was more focused on the substantive points, which you have indicated you didn’t care about so much.
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  #1007  
Old 27-04-2018, 13:25
rosetree rosetree is offline
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I have to say I think people like Marat Sar who take time to write good reviews and detail their thoughts are more inspirational. There is nothing derogatory I've read in his post and I don't see anything wrong in a person articulating their views. I think a lot of negative opinions are condescending to others. I have always had faith in the Manics and as a working class girl I have always believed in them. I go to concerts on my own because they inspire me so much in their art, the song writing and how they perform, their fallability as people and the reality. In the new album I think there are lots of reasons to back them up in their art and work, which is always nice to read about, in a world of a such destruction and ruling.
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  #1008  
Old 27-04-2018, 14:55
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Originally Posted by Marat Sar View Post

This album is all about craft. Seasoned technical constructions, both melodic and production-related (soundscapes), need to step up because JDB-s vocals alone don't carry like they did in the nineties.

I think soundscapes are a bit absent on RiF, the album feels like a huge step back from the lush sonic spaces present on Futurology. It feels like they've simplified their instrumentation quite a bit. I just listened to Futurology and there's little on RiF that even approaches of the diversity of tracks like Black Square or Empty Motorcades. I sort of blame (and perhaps unfairly) Dave Enriga. The albums where he's involved tend to have flatter soundscapes. When you see his name on a record, it's a sign the band are working within their comfort zone.
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  #1009  
Old 27-04-2018, 15:36
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Always blame Eringa.

The last three albums they’ve done with him = SATT, PFAYM and RIF. Basically, the same album as far as production goes.

The last three albums they’ve done without him = JFPL, RTF and Futurology.

With that run of form, I’d be wary of any fan who wants him to ever go near their studio again.
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  #1010  
Old 27-04-2018, 15:48
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At the bottom of my album list in no particular order are GATS, KYE, PFAYM, SATT and RIF....
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  #1011  
Old 27-04-2018, 17:07
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Album dropped to No.13 from last week's No.2.
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  #1012  
Old 27-04-2018, 17:45
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Originally Posted by Marat Sar View Post
The tonal shift between the chords in the bridge and the opening chord of the chorus is very natural, especially for how sudden it is. Clicks into place, propelled by the bouncy rhythmic bass note joining. In accordance, the percussion shifts to double time compared to the bridge -- notice that the drums had already gotten busier in the bridge to set this transition up. To me the transition gives off the effect of an 80s TV style montage of someone taking photos, then the photos splashing on the screen. Joyous and cheesy, enforcing the theme of heavy ideas / melodic playfulness the album represents.

The "Vivian!" utterance is followed by a guitar melody that completes the melodic gesture of the chorus. People saying the chorus is repetative -- only one word! -- fail to make that connection. That it's a full melody started by vocals and then completed by the guitar line. (I can't understand how. Must be the same crowd who don't like Kevin Carter.)

There are no such incomplete choruses on the album, it's there to give respite from the otherwise stocked-full-of-words refrains.

There is, in fact, a full chorus in the song too, only it's saved for the end. Later, when backing vocals are laid atop the guitar line (in the penultimate chorus), it becomes clear that the full chorus was: "Oh Vivian, did you ever realize / Oh Vivian, the history you left behind" and so on. Only it was revealed in bits, as the whole song is: one fitting piece after the other, interlocking into place: the double time chorus into the sparser verse via the bridge, lyrics from the bridge onto the chorus later on. And finally, in the "solo" part an ascending little guitar line fills in the chorus completely, and remains there until the end of the song (every second chord change).

I can recite all this from memory, without even listening to the song -- that's how structurally solid and memorable it is.

Oh, and even the people who don't understand the craft it takes to move from complex + fragile to repetative + dynamic, like this song does, seem to understand the ascending / descending loungy melody in the verses. It's not exactly the first melody you come up with when you pick up a guitar at 16.

This album is all about craft. Seasoned technical constructions, both melodic and production-related (soundscapes), need to step up because JDB-s vocals alone don't carry like they did in the nineties. A lot of bands aren't able to do that -- compensate for the loss of physical youth in their singer's vocal chords (this is usually what the fans mean by: the magic isn't there), and disband. They're not doing that.

Tl;dr -- just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't technically accomplished songwriting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout Finch View Post
That was the most condescending thing I've ever read. 'Just because you don't understand' - get over yourself. Nobody cares whether it's a 'technically accomplished' song or not, they care about whether it's good to listen to and engaging on a personal level. I could write a 'technically accomplished' book and it could still be shit.

Also, 'stocked-full-of-words refrains'? Where? It's not like People Give In or HMLAH are falling over themselves lyrically in the vein of anything off JFPL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout Finch View Post
It's not the technical analysis of the song I particularly mind to be honest, it's the whole tone of the post being so up their own arse, condescending, and judgemental. Yes ok my 'nobody cares' was a generalisation and a heated response to the tone and I can admit that. You can discuss a song technically without sounding like you think yourself superior to others reading it. It was very 'you little people just don't get it but I do and therefore you're wrong'.
I enjoyed his post. Sorry Scout I suspect he plays guitar/reads music....I have no clue about the technicals so happy to have help.... and just wanted to bring over his passion for the song.....sure I can see how in response to your post, had it been my post, I might have got a bit 'gerrova y'self n have a drink kid' but no I wouldn't take any offence cos I really don't read any there to take. It's hard sometimes too on a forum where you have to put your feelings into words and words are all you have (oh God...did I just go Boyzone???) whereas when you're in front of someone you can pick up so much else ....I know that's obvious....but I worry sometimes over things I've written and how they may be taken...when someone doesn't know I take the pee more than I take or mean offence

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosetree View Post
I have to say I think people like Marat Sar who take time to write good reviews and detail their thoughts are more inspirational. There is nothing derogatory I've read in his post and I don't see anything wrong in a person articulating their views. I think a lot of negative opinions are condescending to others. I have always had faith in the Manics and as a working class girl I have always believed in them. I go to concerts on my own because they inspire me so much in their art, the song writing and how they perform, their fallability as people and the reality. In the new album I think there are lots of reasons to back them up in their art and work, which is always nice to read about, in a world of a such destruction and ruling.
Perfectly put

Quote:
Originally Posted by everlasting View Post
Album dropped to No.13 from last week's No.2.
Shurrup. Nicely please.
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  #1013  
Old 27-04-2018, 21:00
ohsoso ohsoso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
I enjoyed his post. Sorry Scout I suspect he plays guitar/reads music....I have no clue about the technicals so happy to have help.... and just wanted to bring over his passion for the song.....sure I can see how in response to your post, had it been my post, I might have got a bit 'gerrova y'self n have a drink kid' but no I wouldn't take any offence cos I really don't read any there to take. It's hard sometimes too on a forum where you have to put your feelings into words and words are all you have (oh God...did I just go Boyzone???) whereas when you're in front of someone you can pick up so much else ....I know that's obvious....but I worry sometimes over things I've written and how they may be taken...when someone doesn't know I take the pee more than I take or mean offence



Perfectly put



Shurrup. Nicely please.
and here - there is a community in this. i like this. very much.
regarding rif; there are lots of well crafted pop songs. but eringa + bradfield do not work for me. but did make me enjoy lifeblood more than ever before. drums are perfected still.

the left behind + liverpool revisited (demo) + in eternity are fun and fragile.

i'd bless them for their courage to do something any day. enough demi-self mythology. do any solo or conceptual albums they want really - entrench and drench and divulge into whatever. like kye or futurology but really personal and way off musically. i'd love that.

Last edited by ohsoso; 27-04-2018 at 21:37.
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  #1014  
Old 28-04-2018, 15:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porco View Post
Have you heard Mirror Gaze yet? It makes me want to punch the air.
No, is it one of the japanese tracks?

Album is finally growing on me.
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  #1015  
Old 28-04-2018, 15:49
rosetree rosetree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post

Perfectly put
Thanks. It's always nice to read your reviews too.

I think compared to tabloid views when they misquote and mislead politically about the band they don't seem to care about any of the technicalities of the album or more reasons for people to buy a manics album, or the chart outcome. So I wonder how much their interviews help.
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  #1016  
Old 28-04-2018, 15:57
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Originally Posted by Takk View Post
No, is it one of the japanese tracks?

Album is finally growing on me.
Yes, and it's amazing IMHO.
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  #1017  
Old 28-04-2018, 16:12
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Ooh.

Maybe I just needed better speakers...lots of detail coming out in the lyrics and music i wasn't getting before.
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  #1018  
Old 28-04-2018, 16:15
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darkanddivine darkanddivine is offline
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Past, present, future?

This has been a weird album for me. I came into it with low expectations, which might explain why I’ve come out of it feeling pleasantly surprised.

That said, there’s definitely a shadow over this album. In the same way This is My Truth was dominated by the melancholy of carrying on without Richey, this record is drenched in different kind of wistfulness. Perhaps it’s not surprising that there’s a sense that they’re grasping for a hook or a niche as to what the band mean in 2018 having put their 90’s heyday to bed to some degree.

The thing I like about this record most is the guitar work. Jimmy had gone a bit back in his box around 2007. From there onwards, the guitars were big, bold and brash - which worked well in small doses. But those lovely odd experimentations with weird chords, and sloghtly off kilter progressions seemed to disappear after then, with the obvious exception of JFPL. Jimmy is channeling the 1997 side of himself here, with lots of interesting little diversions in most of the songs.

But back to the start. The opening to this record is super strong. People Give In might not be the opener you’d might expect, but I think (while it’s not 1985) it’s up there with the best opening tracks they’ve done. It makes a bold statement about the place the band is in right now, and sets the scene for the album. But it's also a tone-setter in that it reveals a subtle intricacy between guitar, keys and orchestra. Not just the classic "Manics plus orchestra" by any stretch of the imagination. International Blue is genuinely a soaring delight and would have been an absolute smash hit back when singles actually mattered.

After that, I’m afraid the album does drop a level (imo of course.) Distant Colours carries some of the same nice intricacies in guitar work that International Blue does, but the verse just doesn’t work. I’ve heard people say that the acoustic version beats the electric one. But I still think the loud parts of the song work best, especially the jagged middle guitar section.

I know it’s split opinion, but I like Vivian a lot. It’s a proper summery jangly tune, and it wouldn’t be out of place on The Great Western. Dylan & Caitlan is decent, but despite the relative strengths of these tracks, the run from Vivian to Liverpool Revisited sucks the life out of the record just as it gets going, which I think leads to the opening half feeling a tad underwhelming. I think taking one song out of that trio would probably have helped the overall pacing of the album.

After that point though, the albums gets super interesting. This is a compliment, but Sequels of Forgotten Wars actually reminds me of an EMG era B-side, with it’s slightly off kilter verse arrangement. And those Australia like huge chords that punctuate the chorus are just glorious. Hold Me Like a Heaven has a feel of Lifeblood about it, and with a different production it wouldn’t be out of place alongside I Live To Fall Asleep. It’s just a beautiful song full stop, and as good as anything else they've done in the last decade. In Eternity soars a notch lower than International Blue, but it soars nonetheless. Great chorus and I get the feeling this might be a bit of a dusty gem in years to come.

The only other dip for me was Broken Algorithms. I know the guys “just wanted to rock” on this album, but this - and the topic - don’t click for me. It just feels a bit punk by numbers in the same way Imperial Bodybags did. The record picks up again though, and A Song for the Sadness is an exceptionally pretty tribute to Bowie with a bruised heart (the “sh-sh-sh-sh-shining” vocal is a dead giveaway.) That track could have been a closer - but The Left Behind is great too. I haven’t enjoyed many of Nicky’s vocals in the past - but The Left Behind is genuinely a lovely track and I’m chuffed he’s finally nailed that wistful closer that he attempted back on Williams Last Words.

In the end, perhaps unsurprisingly, musically this album lands somewhere between EMG and Futurology, via Lifeblood. Clearly from the bands interviews of late they’ve not found it easy to come back. Overall though, this is undoubtably a welcome return. At the same time, I’m reading a fair few less than complimentary comments from around the forum which are suggesting the live shows aren’t quite doing the trick. Hopefully that doesn’t take the wind out of their sales as this is a very strong record. It's certainly the best thing they've done since JFPL and most of the songs stand up with the best stuff they've ever done. No mean feat on album 13.
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  #1019  
Old 28-04-2018, 16:19
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Sales for the week gone by:
No.13 Manic Street Preachers 5,238
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  #1020  
Old 28-04-2018, 16:25
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Sales for the week gone by:
No.13 Manic Street Preachers 5,238
Could y'all not have bought it a week earlier... ?!?!?

Still they got a no.13 for their no.13. Which came out on the 13th. So there's that
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