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  #361  
Old 18-02-2019, 16:50
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Originally Posted by Takk View Post
This. Thanks . I've been keeping a close eye on this thread for this reason.
We've been good I think
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  #362  
Old 18-02-2019, 19:10
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Originally Posted by hummingbird View Post
Can anyone copy and paste the times review in here? You have to register to see the full article and I'm lazy

The interview in the Wales online makes me want to read the book just for the personal archive, family tree, what he was reading ...but then I see the bit about him not getting on with the others -and all the other nonsense mentioned here -and I don't anymore.
I know people have issues with privacy but normally a close family member or friend should be the perfect person to ensure care is taken when publishing such things. Personal papers have been published before...Virginia Woolf's diaries, Sylvia Plath's letters even Anne Franks diary and that was the diary of a child....considered a classic today, John Lennon's letters, - Yoko Ono has always been fiercely protective of Lennon's legacy. Kurt Cobain's journals..- publication of his suicide note shouldn't have been made public in my view however.
Having an interest in the archive does not mean the reader is looking for juicy gossip or doesn't support the band. Of course we support them. 1000%.
I've a copy of The Times review but I'm not sure if I can post? Or would it be in breach of copyright because it's subscriber access??
It doesn't cost anything though just your email and a password and you can read it, takes 2 minutes to access
The 3am piece that got taken down as well as being full of rubbish copied several lines from the Wales Online piece with no acknowledgment which may have contributed to it being taken down...anyways

It's not just privacy it's interpretation too maybe? Whoever hands over private materials, or chooses to publish may also have the power over how they are interpreted through how they choose to present them, what they decide to publish and what they decide to omit. Something the band seemed very aware of when they came to record Journal...it's a big responsibilty and even if the best will in the world you might never be sure you've got it right. Sylvia Plath is possibly almost as well known for the arguments and fall outs and spite levelled at the Hughes family who took care of the copyright than she is for her poetry. I believe Anne Frank's diary was edited upon first publication though at the call of her publisher rather than her father (to take out the bits referring to sex...never mind the inhumanity of the camps and the mass murder can't mention any thoughts relating to sex...readers won't cope


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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
You know, Iíve always appreciated your contributions here, but this is completely uncalled for! No one is stating any of this as fact, just reiterating what otherís have said. I personally brought up the passage because it was mentioned a few pages back, I didnít include it to shame anyone or spread ďgossipĒ!

Man, itís replies like this that pushed me away from this forum a few years back. Iím still not comfortable posting here because I know someone will inevitably take something the wrong way even though I feel like I do my best to explain my reasoning. Ugh! Whatever!
Not stating as fact just reiterating what other's have said is gossip no? I can sound more blunt than I intend sometimes. Although someone will always disagree with you, someone will at some point misinterpret you that's no reason to decide to leave the forum or any other place and certainly not my intention. Just a few posts, not just yours, had started to be pretty derogatory towards members of the band and none of it based on anything but hearsay and assumptions and a friend of a friend's dog down the pub who overheard....I just find/found it frustrating than when so many are critcising SHR for repeating unsubstantiated rumours, putting her own interpretation on some events and just telling plain lies with the intent to denigrate the 3 remaining members over pretty much everything that the thread would itself descend into rumour and gossip and painting James black. I know no one has said 'this be true fact' but a lot of damaging gossip never states that, just repeats itself, gets ever more ridiculous and yet still harms

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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Not trying to be the anti-fun police, but this thread is kind of getting into the quasi slander arena. Whether rumours are baseless or not, it's probably best not to give them much airing here. Considering there may already be some legal attention given to SHR's book, I think we should not give grounds to have that attention refocused on this forum.
See, you're more measured
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  #363  
Old 18-02-2019, 19:58
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Originally Posted by raven View Post
Not stating as fact just reiterating what other's have said is gossip no? I can sound more blunt than I intend sometimes. Although someone will always disagree with you, someone will at some point misinterpret you that's no reason to decide to leave the forum or any other place and certainly not my intention. Just a few posts, not just yours, had started to be pretty derogatory towards members of the band and none of it based on anything but hearsay and assumptions and a friend of a friend's dog down the pub who overheard....I just find/found it frustrating than when so many are critcising SHR for repeating unsubstantiated rumours, putting her own interpretation on some events and just telling plain lies with the intent to denigrate the 3 remaining members over pretty much everything that the thread would itself descend into rumour and gossip and painting James black. I know no one has said 'this be true fact' but a lot of damaging gossip never states that, just repeats itself, gets ever more ridiculous and yet still harms
No one's painting James in a bad light. You're taking what was posted a little too literally. As I said earlier, the issue has been discussed at length else where. There was no need to start insulting me over it.

Last edited by Velocitygirl; 18-02-2019 at 20:26.
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  #364  
Old 18-02-2019, 20:32
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I've a copy of The Times review but I'm not sure if I can post? Or would it be in breach of copyright because it's subscriber access??
It doesn't cost anything though just your email and a password and you can read it, takes 2 minutes to access
The 3am piece that got taken down as well as being full of rubbish copied several lines from the Wales Online piece with no acknowledgment which may have contributed to it being taken down...anyways

It's not just privacy it's interpretation too maybe? Whoever hands over private materials, or chooses to publish may also have the power over how they are interpreted through how they choose to present them, what they decide to publish and what they decide to omit. Something the band seemed very aware of when they came to record Journal...it's a big responsibilty and even if the best will in the world you might never be sure you've got it right. Sylvia Plath is possibly almost as well known for the arguments and fall outs and spite levelled at the Hughes family who took care of the copyright than she is for her poetry. I believe Anne Frank's diary was edited upon first publication though at the call of her publisher rather than her father (to take out the bits referring to sex...never mind the inhumanity of the camps and the mass murder can't mention any thoughts relating to sex...readers won't cope




Not stating as fact just reiterating what other's have said is gossip no? I can sound more blunt than I intend sometimes. Although someone will always disagree with you, someone will at some point misinterpret you that's no reason to decide to leave the forum or any other place and certainly not my intention. Just a few posts, not just yours, had started to be pretty derogatory towards members of the band and none of it based on anything but hearsay and assumptions and a friend of a friend's dog down the pub who overheard....I just find/found it frustrating than when so many are critcising SHR for repeating unsubstantiated rumours, putting her own interpretation on some events and just telling plain lies with the intent to denigrate the 3 remaining members over pretty much everything that the thread would itself descend into rumour and gossip and painting James black. I know no one has said 'this be true fact' but a lot of damaging gossip never states that, just repeats itself, gets ever more ridiculous and yet still harms



See, you're more measured
Quoting the whole lot cos it's too awkward to cut stuff out on my phone. Agree interpretation is important.Very. that's what I meant by taking care about what to publish and what to leave out. I thought it was Anne frank's dad that wanted the diary edited ..being prudish..I've not read the current version with everything back in. Never read Sylvia Plath's letters or her poetry. Included it cos I happened upon it scrolling instagram .
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  #365  
Old 18-02-2019, 23:36
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Originally Posted by hummingbird View Post
Quoting the whole lot cos it's too awkward to cut stuff out on my phone. Agree interpretation is important.Very. that's what I meant by taking care about what to publish and what to leave out. I thought it was Anne frank's dad that wanted the diary edited ..being prudish..I've not read the current version with everything back in. Never read Sylvia Plath's letters or her poetry. Included it cos I happened upon it scrolling instagram .
Ah you should give Plath a try. If you want to' The Moon & the Yew Tree' and 'Sheep in Fog' and 'You're' are favourites....and of course through all her poetry you can play spot the Manic references! Bloody loads ha. I have her collected letters and journals but God knows how she managed to write the sheer amount she did in such a short life cos I'm sure I'd need ways more years to read through them all. I love Ted Hughes work too, it's hard to beat Full Moon and Little Frieda .... I may digress but good to have a breather....
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There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


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  #366  
Old 19-02-2019, 17:40
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Saw this thread on Twitter earlier from someone who must have received an advance copy of the book somehow: https://twitter.com/davidclewis/stat...52161241354241

I find it worrying that someone (who seems to have been a big Manics fan in the past, even if not so much now) most likely not privy to the conversations going on within the fandom at the moment seems to have been taken in by all of this. Sentences like 'allegations, particularly relating to the rest of the band' makes me think it's as bad as we feared.

Also not sure I agree it's a 'fact' that Rachel is the 'driving force' behind this book either, but whatever.
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  #367  
Old 19-02-2019, 17:48
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Originally Posted by Abstract Unknown Girl View Post
Saw this thread on Twitter earlier from someone who must have received an advance copy of the book somehow: https://twitter.com/davidclewis/stat...52161241354241

I find it worrying that someone (who seems to have been a big Manics fan in the past, even if not so much now) most likely not privy to the conversations going on within the fandom at the moment seems to have been taken in by all of this. Sentences like 'allegations, particularly relating to the rest of the band' makes me think it's as bad as we feared.

Also not sure I agree it's a 'fact' that Rachel is the 'driving force' behind this book either, but whatever.
The annoying ..very annoying thing is that because Rachel is involved some people are going to think everything is true. I just want to know exactly what the book is saying so I can rip it to pieces if anyone asks. Can't do that if I've not read it.
Hopefully common sense will win out. The times review saying the digs at the band are unfair is positive at least.
What on earth is it saying about the last day??
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Last edited by hummingbird; 19-02-2019 at 17:56.
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  #368  
Old 19-02-2019, 17:59
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The annoying ..very annoying thing is that because Rachel is involved some people are going to think everything is true.
Yep and thatís exactly why SHR has done it this way, in my opinion. Itís very emotionally manipulative.
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  #369  
Old 19-02-2019, 18:02
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Hope it backfires and most see through it...we fans are meant to be intelligent types
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  #370  
Old 19-02-2019, 18:09
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I'm gutted this has been published. The written word is unfortunately so powerful and influential for some who can't be objective.
This shit will be believed by many.


The author is a scum bag shit c**t.
I'm certainly not someone that worships everything the band has done and I'm very aware they are human beings with the same ability to cause harm or do wrong as all of us, but it's so so clear that this is written by an obsessed lunatic that is should be dismissed immediately as a piece of sensationalist crap.

Its fan fiction. Thats exactly what it is. Because not one of the pieces of evidence that is being spouted has led to a single lead.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a money element to this but I'll keep my opinion on that to myself at this stage.

The band has been so so sensitive about everything surrounding Richey from day one. They have been dignified and I'm happy with how they conduct themselves.

So they mightve had some dramas in relationships - I'm pretty sure we all have and we have ALL done wrong. Because they are famous they don't deserve old shit dragged up by some little weirdo with a grudge.

Livid.
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  #371  
Old 19-02-2019, 18:18
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I'm not too worried if I'm honest. This will likely cause an "oooh gossip" stir with some but it'll die down.

So far when something manics related is out or advertised friends or family will mention it as I'm The Manics Fan. Not heard a peep about this.
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Last edited by hummingbird; 19-02-2019 at 18:21.
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  #372  
Old 19-02-2019, 20:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abstract Unknown Girl View Post
Saw this thread on Twitter earlier from someone who must have received an advance copy of the book somehow: https://twitter.com/davidclewis/stat...52161241354241

I find it worrying that someone (who seems to have been a big Manics fan in the past, even if not so much now) most likely not privy to the conversations going on within the fandom at the moment seems to have been taken in by all of this. Sentences like 'allegations, particularly relating to the rest of the band' makes me think it's as bad as we feared.

Also not sure I agree it's a 'fact' that Rachel is the 'driving force' behind this book either, but whatever.
My thoughts exactly - this guyís experience/verdict was exactly what I feared. Literally turned my stomach reading this. He seems smart and considered, and I donít want to assume heís just taken it all as gospel, but... he doesnít seem entirely unconvinced, put it that way.

Why would so much scandalously contrary information not set off alarm bells? Itís sounding - as we well knew it would be, at this point - like a mad hatchet job, full guns blazing, not just a few bits of dissenting opinion or conflicting information. Anyone with the vaguest knowledge of the band should realise such an onslaught cannot be in any way reasonable. SURELY?
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  #373  
Old 19-02-2019, 20:59
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I'm not too worried if I'm honest. This will likely cause an "oooh gossip" stir with some but it'll die down.
This is how I feel, tbh. It'll just cause a bit of a stir (it has already, in fairness) but it won't break the band simply because we already know it's a hatchet job written by someone with an axe to grind.
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  #374  
Old 20-02-2019, 14:35
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The annoying ..very annoying thing is that because Rachel is involved some people are going to think everything is true. I just want to know exactly what the book is saying so I can rip it to pieces if anyone asks. Can't do that if I've not read it.
Hopefully common sense will win out. The times review saying the digs at the band are unfair is positive at least.
What on earth is it saying about the last day??
I finally read the Times review and it sounds like the writer was easily able to separate the interesting insights from the unsubstantiated digs at the band and wild conspiracy theories. It's by some distance the best article written around the release of this book that I've read so far.

That said, as someone who has lurked on this thread throughout, I want to thank everyone that has contributed for an interesting discussion that has helped to form a clear idea of the writer's agenda.
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  #375  
Old 20-02-2019, 16:26
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I'll not bother buying this. Will wait until it is like £1 or something haha.
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