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  #16  
Old 07-06-2018, 14:06
Lee Lee is offline
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Yeah that was really strange.

Fuck knows who came up with the idea of WM playing it. Baffling decision.
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  #17  
Old 07-06-2018, 15:58
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Originally Posted by PaulTMA View Post
But then again Manics fans have always had a massive cob-on for any additional musicians they've had. They're always committing atrocities like being too loud (despite not mixing their own levels), visibly enjoying themselves too much, having a haircut too much like Richey, sounding like a "fairground organ", being too near the front, etc.

They clearly resisted having an additional guitarist for many years until they felt they could comfortably avoid a shitstorm and it wouldn't be taken as 'replacing Richey' (although I bet there were a handful who got a little bit upset anyway), ludicrous as that may seem. In terms of guitars, well there are nearly always layers of guitar parts on Manics songs from all eras. If I was JDB and had created those arrangements myself and had to struggle to sing in addition to pulling them off as well, for years, I'd certainly want some backup in order to pull off something resembling the sound they were shooting for, you know, like normal bands are allowed to do. In terms of keyboards, well there are keyboards all over most of the Manics output, due to decisions made by the Manics themselves, which is another reason why I don't subscribe to the idea that they sound better as a three-piece - simply because far too many key songs would sound empty without them.
This is bollocks. You're not engaging with the debate in any way, you're just dismissing it because of your perception of other people's PoVs about other matters. What does someone's gripe about the band being too loud at a gig however many years ago have to do with the band's new-found reluctance to perform, in favour of doing a sort-of karaoke over a backing track and delegating the guitar work to hired hands?





Quote:
James taking his hands off the guitar during verses, when he never used to - why is this so difficult to accept? Him not doing some rhythm guitar? Genuine question.
Because we pay for, we take time off work for, and we travel through for live performances to see bands actually play live. It mightn't be something you care for, but watching the musicians play live is part of the wonder of a live performance. Personally, I find it absolutely mesmerizing to focus in on each musician to watch what they're doing and to listen to all the intricacies and nuances they work into their playing. It's one of my favourite things about seeing any band play live, and the particular brilliance of JDB live is one of the major reasons I love the Manics so much.

When you go to see a band and the key guy you've gone to see just sort-of stands there and lets someone veiled in darkness at the back of the stage do his bits, how can you feel anything more than short-changed?
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  #18  
Old 07-06-2018, 19:34
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My main complaint is that they don't try to do anything interesting with the extra musicians. The band are so beholden to the recorded music that they dare not even change up the instrumentation a bit. Surely the trumpet could be experimented on a few other tracks? With the exception of Wayne'vocals, every other musician is so low in the mix that if you were to listen to a recording you wouldn't even think they were there. There is obviously some talent there but whatever reason MSP just hold back and the extra musicians become a visual distraction rather than freeing up the soundscape for the band to shine.

I do feel like the band's live confidence has been hit a bit for some reason. Maybe they've played too many no name festivals with unappreciative crowds or are not connected as tightly as a band because of genuine pressing real life matters. I haven't seen much passion from the band this year which is understandable given circumstances but I do hope they find their inspiration for the next album and tour.
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  #19  
Old 08-06-2018, 06:50
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
My main complaint is that they don't try to do anything interesting with the extra musicians. The band are so beholden to the recorded music that they dare not even change up the instrumentation a bit. Surely the trumpet could be experimented on a few other tracks? With the exception of Wayne'vocals, every other musician is so low in the mix that if you were to listen to a recording you wouldn't even think they were there. There is obviously some talent there but whatever reason MSP just hold back and the extra musicians become a visual distraction rather than freeing up the soundscape for the band to shine.

I do feel like the band's live confidence has been hit a bit for some reason. Maybe they've played too many no name festivals with unappreciative crowds or are not connected as tightly as a band because of genuine pressing real life matters. I haven't seen much passion from the band this year which is understandable given circumstances but I do hope they find their inspiration for the next album and tour.
I think you may have a point about their confidence. After less than brilliant reviews of their performance on the first couple of dates this year, they seemed to liven up during the course of the Birmingham gig as they realised they had a decent crowd and they were going down well.

I’m not sure that Gavin really adds anything (not though any fault of his own, rather with his brief). I could live without the trumpet full stop - I liked the sax versions of the KC and OS solos they did a few years ago. It does seem strange they James Is delegating so much and it obviously doesn’t come that naturally to him, as we saw in Belfast.

Awful as the mega drive keyboards are, they’ve been around for long enough to be a bit of a moot point now. Although was surprised that with masses this year we still had the organ with three guitars on stage.

Like others, I’m mainly here for JDB and his guitar, I love to hear him play.
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Last edited by centralscrutiniser; 08-06-2018 at 06:53.
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  #20  
Old 08-06-2018, 07:07
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I much prefer the trumpet to the sax ...still hoping one year Sean will play it on stage ..
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  #21  
Old 08-06-2018, 09:51
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My thoughts are:

I pay my money to watch "the band" play their instruments.

If I wanted to watch The "Wayne Murray" show I would. He's a touring member and a backing musician. He shouldn't be playing the lead on most songs..

Sadly if this continues my last manics gig will be my last manics gig. Sad times
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  #22  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:16
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They need a second drummer.
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  #23  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:18
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Again?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=26DIehl2SCs
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  #24  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:36
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This version of everything will be actually shows how live musicians should be used. Sublime stuff here.
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  #25  
Old 08-06-2018, 16:10
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scott_laconia scott_laconia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kyle16 View Post
My thoughts are:

I pay my money to watch "the band" play their instruments.

If I wanted to watch The "Wayne Murray" show I would. He's a touring member and a backing musician. He shouldn't be playing the lead on most songs..

Sadly if this continues my last manics gig will be my last manics gig. Sad times
Am I missing something? He barely plays any lead, you would think James was stood there doing nothing, he is STILL very much the main guitarist, dropping out for a verse here and there really doesn't make a difference.

Its still the band, they are still the driving force. I can understand if we were talking about someone like Slash... whose sole role was to play guitar.
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Last edited by scott_laconia; 08-06-2018 at 16:14.
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  #26  
Old 08-06-2018, 16:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_laconia View Post
Am I missing something? He barely plays any lead, you would think James was stood there doing nothing, he is STILL very much the main guitarist, dropping out for a verse here and there really doesn't make a difference.

Its still the band, they are still the driving force. I can understand if we were talking about someone like Slash... whose sole role was to play guitar.
Lets go through a typical recent setlist:

He plays acoustic on ME - Great.
He plays fills and verses on IB while JDB plays nothing - not so great. Flubbed.
He plays lead riff on NSAF - Fuck me
He plays the main verse riff of YSTS while JDB plays nothing - Really?
He plays verse chords on EMG while JDB plays nothing - Terrible
He plays verse guitar on DFL while JDB plays nothing - A genuine disgrace.
He plays acoustic on Tolerate while JDB plays nothing - OK

That is just off the top of my head.

At least JDB still plays all of YLU, SnB, Masses(?).

JDB playing less guitar is a HUGE deal.

Last edited by Europa Gluten Free; 08-06-2018 at 16:41.
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  #27  
Old 08-06-2018, 18:57
PaulTMA PaulTMA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
This is bollocks. You're not engaging with the debate in any way, you're just dismissing it because of your perception of other people's PoVs about other matters. What does someone's gripe about the band being too loud at a gig however many years ago have to do with the band's new-found reluctance to perform, in favour of doing a sort-of karaoke over a backing track and delegating the guitar work to hired hands?







Because we pay for, we take time off work for, and we travel through for live performances to see bands actually play live. It mightn't be something you care for, but watching the musicians play live is part of the wonder of a live performance. Personally, I find it absolutely mesmerizing to focus in on each musician to watch what they're doing and to listen to all the intricacies and nuances they work into their playing. It's one of my favourite things about seeing any band play live, and the particular brilliance of JDB live is one of the major reasons I love the Manics so much.

When you go to see a band and the key guy you've gone to see just sort-of stands there and lets someone veiled in darkness at the back of the stage do his bits, how can you feel anything more than short-changed?
Dunno, I think that sounds kind of cool.
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  #28  
Old 08-06-2018, 22:13
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There was a report recently of James refusing to sign autographs, which seems very unlike him, as does not playing lead guitar parts when he can. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out later down the line that he's suffering from Carpal tunnel syndrome or something. Something is definitely not right.
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  #29  
Old 08-06-2018, 22:48
PaulTMA PaulTMA is offline
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To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy if they introduced Catch's Bingo to the set. Get rid of something old and tired like NSAF altogether.
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  #30  
Old 08-06-2018, 22:51
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Originally Posted by cherrybomb View Post
There was a report recently of James refusing to sign autographs, which seems very unlike him, as does not playing lead guitar parts when he can. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out later down the line that he's suffering from Carpal tunnel syndrome or something. Something is definitely not right.
Always a possibility. Hope not though
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