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  #631  
Old 03-03-2019, 18:01
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Originally Posted by raven View Post
Completely separate to the above I'm confused as to where the anti-semitism accusations in relation to the book have originated from? From the book? Her public facebook page? I get that if someone's read something in the book they won't want to quote it as that is likely being reviewed by a legal beagle at the minute but quite an accusation?
It's come from those who have already read the book.
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  #632  
Old 03-03-2019, 18:25
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We need to separate things here. I’m not a fan of the book or the author, but has she just said someone was “capitalist evil”. And he happens to be a Jew?
That’s not anti-semitism.
If she included/connected it with that he’s Jewish and that has to do with the “fact” he’s capitalist evil”, that’s another thing.

Which one is it?
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Last edited by theplague; 03-03-2019 at 19:25.
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  #633  
Old 03-03-2019, 19:46
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It kind of is. Jews are often characterised as having control of money on a global scale. This meme was quite common in Nazi propoganda and the stereotype is still promulgated today by antisemites in the right, and left. Whether SHR was intentional is sort of besides the point.

Plus as record execs go, Rob Stringer isn't exactly known for being that bit of a shithead. He stood by the band through thick and thin. It seems that once again, SHR targets those closest to the band purely out some mixture of spite and envy.
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  #634  
Old 03-03-2019, 19:51
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The ‘capitalist evil’ quote is from Barbara Ellen though... it’s very hard to judge there things without reading them first-hand, however I am definitely not going to be lining SHR’s pockets, even if we ever do get the opportunity.
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  #635  
Old 04-03-2019, 01:52
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Originally Posted by vaiden View Post
Is this the first time we ever heard about the passport and old picture? What about this Vivian referred to? I don't want to go to the FB pages as I can already imagine what's being said there.
Like I said, the pictures identified as his last known photos have always been referred to as photos he had taken to renew his passport, but the passport he was using had his old photo in it. I'm massively speculating here that he had another passport drawn up using the photos with his shaved head. If someone heard him say to this mystery woman (she may also be the fan Emma Forrest claims Richey gave Novel with Cocaine to with the instructions about reading the forward) to take his passport because he didn't need it anymore, maybe that's because he had another one. Again, this is pure speculation based on pretty much nothing. I don't even know how hard or easy it would be in Britain, at that time let alone now, to falsify the info it would take to get a fake passport.

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I don't think checking the author for previous form is out of order. I was writing about an issue raised in her book. If I'd posted one of the numerous selfies or some random comment about her family or views on religion then that would've been irrelevant. Checking for a motive why a particular statement was written is pretty sensible whatever you're reading.
Yeah, what you posted was totally relevant to the discussion. I mean, if those are her beliefs, it's not completely out of left field that she may hold antisemitic views which would add credence to the assumption that an antisemitic trope is included in the book.

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Originally Posted by theplague View Post
We need to separate things here. I’m not a fan of the book or the author, but has she just said someone was “capitalist evil”. And he happens to be a Jew?
That’s not anti-semitism.
If she included/connected it with that he’s Jewish and that has to do with the “fact” he’s capitalist evil”, that’s another thing.

Which one is it?
Unless they blatantly say something in the book or allude to this individual's religion, then there's no way really of knowing for sure if they were perpetuating an old antisemitic stereotype or that they were just referring to someone being more concerned about money from a corporate hack angle.

Last edited by Bryter Layter; 04-03-2019 at 06:59.
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  #636  
Old 04-03-2019, 03:30
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Having 2 passports is something to definitely consider because of the time gap between his disappearance and discovering the car. I would think that Emma Forest would have been questioned about any more info she might have and we would have heard about it. If Richey was trying to give the old one to Emma that would make sense. But who brought the passport back to the flat? How do we know about the new picture of him with the shaved head? I can't remember? Who released those pictures?
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  #637  
Old 04-03-2019, 07:00
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It kind of is. Jews are often characterised as having control of money on a global scale. This meme was quite common in Nazi propoganda and the stereotype is still promulgated today by antisemites in the right, and left. Whether SHR was intentional is sort of besides the point.

Plus as record execs go, Rob Stringer isn't exactly known for being that bit of a shithead. He stood by the band through thick and thin. It seems that once again, SHR targets those closest to the band purely out some mixture of spite and envy.
I just believe that you could criticize anyone if they’re greedy capitalist.
Should you avoid doing that if they happen to be jewish? How and for what are you allowed to criticize these persons then?

Again, if you’re connecting their “evil” with the fact they’re Jews it’s another thing.
And if you’re not critizing “evil capitalism” in general.

If she/someone has a history of critizing Jews as evil generally then You have a valid point even if it’s not presented the latter way.
Does SHR have that?

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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post

Unless they blatantly say something in the book or allude to this individual's religion, then there's no way really of knowing for sure if they were perpetuating an old antisemitic stereotype or that they were just referring to someone being more concerned about money from a corporate hack angle. I think it's important that we keep this in mind before making any accusations.
Exactly.
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Last edited by theplague; 04-03-2019 at 10:25.
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  #638  
Old 04-03-2019, 20:12
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I'm still not clear where the antisemitism accusation has come from. The book? Except posts have stated that it's what they've heard about it not what they've read in it. If it's taken from a public post on her Facebook page then why not quote. I've only had a quick run through some recent posts but the only reference I can find to the holocaust is that the allies or rather their governments played a role in turning a blind eye. That's absolutely factual and does not implicate Jews wealthy or otherwise. (I did also come across the fantastic quote A wise man once said nothing ) So I'm puzzled. Statements referring to Rob Stringer as evil capitalist etc are taken from the Barbara Ellen piece, she makes sarcastic comments throughout, at no point refers to his religion .... and lets grab a Manics lyric from way back....In walkman sounds, hear Sony control
Again appreciate that if there is a derogatory reference to his faith in the book it shouldn't be quoted here as it hasn't yet been officially published but no one seems to be saying they have actually read such a reference
It's a strong accusation as theplague said it's not fair to throw it around unless backed up not just suggested or links assumed because she may or may not have criticised him as capitalist embodiment of evil...

Regards faking passports, I think, but my recall is tipsy, that at that time it was still possible to get a one year passport fairly easily? and at the time I believe someone from a missing person's charity and the police (!) had said it wasn't all that difficult to get a fake one (back then)... but the police did add that there was no evidence to suggest that was the case.
The photo on the missing poster - if that doesn't match the passport photo - I think there would have been more concern at the time no? It seems too obvious a thing to have missed and I've never heard his sister refer to it so probably there is an explanation that makes sense there.

I'm also pretty sure Novel With Cocaine was left in the box to Jo and that's it. I know the Emma Forrest story but I think that's what she was referring to although yes I know she said he gave it to a friend and emphasised she read the foreword. She said that back in '96 but I was aware of the book before then. Can't remember how but I do remember coming across a copy very soon after, not a year after, and feeling a little twilight zone. No it wasn't handed to me by a mystery man with a Welsh lilt and a highlighter pen. I'd remember that Aside from that interview with Emma Forrest no other reference to it being handed to someone has been made - all references trace back to that. I don't think her intention was to mislead.. he left it for a friend she maybe could have chosen her words more carefully but

Again I don't know but I feel it stretches credibility to think anyone else was involved not least because why would anyone do that? Put his family and friends through all this? It doesn't add up. Someone would have had to have been very close to him to be trusted and want to help as well which makes it even less likely that they could or would
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  #639  
Old 04-03-2019, 21:20
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I'm still not clear where the antisemitism accusation has come from. The book?
It's come from the book, but I think people are reading into it a little too much. Seeing as names are being mentioned (mods, I'll leave it up to your discretion if you want to keep this up or not. I have no idea what is or isn't acceptable here anymore), I was told that Rob Stringer is portrayed as someone whose paramount concern is money and also, as an aside, he took great exception to Richey dressing like a holocaust victim (I don't blame him one bit and I'm not Jewish). That's all I was told. I highly doubt a book with even a slight suggestion of antisemitism would get published by a subsidiary of a large publishing house.

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Regards faking passports, I think, but my recall is tipsy, that at that time it was still possible to get a one year passport fairly easily? and at the time I believe someone from a missing person's charity and the police (!) had said it wasn't all that difficult to get a fake one (back then)... but the police did add that there was no evidence to suggest that was the case.
Well, the police seemed to have missed a lot in their investigation so I'm not sure much of what they said can't be scrutinized. Didn't one of the lead detectives initially tell Simon Price that he thought Richey hadn't committed suicide and that someone would have had to have helped him disappear if that is what happened? He then he recanted or something because Price had to redact that bit when he updated the book.

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The photo on the missing poster - if that doesn't match the passport photo - I think there would have been more concern at the time no? It seems too obvious a thing to have missed and I've never heard his sister refer to it so probably there is an explanation that makes sense there.
Those photos have always been credited as photos he took to renew his passport and they definitely do look like passport photos. They have two of them, but what if there were more? Again, it's probably nothing.

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I'm also pretty sure Novel With Cocaine was left in the box to Jo and that's it.
I was told that in the book, it states that it was Jo who gave him the novel in the first place and there is no mention of it among the contents of the box. Why would he give her a book she recommended to him with instructions to read the forward? It sounds like it may have been this Vivian person, but since Emma Forrest seems to get cold feet these days talking about anything Richey related, I guess we'll never know if the story is true or heavily exaggerated. I mean, if Wire mentioned this Vivian person was with Richey that evening, there must be something to it. Still, you have to wonder why this info wasn't further investigated at the time.

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Again I don't know but I feel it stretches credibility to think anyone else was involved not least because why would anyone do that? Put his family and friends through all this? It doesn't add up. Someone would have had to have been very close to him to be trusted and want to help as well which makes it even less likely that they could or would
If he did just start anew, I can see someone who cared about him thinking they could improve his quality of life by helping him do this. Or maybe one of his many sycophantic followers who would have done anything for him. There's a number of reasons why they probably haven't come forward as well - fear of backlash or maybe they just genuinely believe that it was his choice and they still don't think any wrong was done despite his family's grief. It's shitty to say, but I can see some people being like this.
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  #640  
Old 04-03-2019, 22:40
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Wasn't the one-year passport theory also put forward by Simon Price in "Everything"? I distinctly recall him writing about it somewhere. So, I hope SHR isn't passing this theory off as something new. Anyway, I seem to remember they could even be picked up at Post Offices, which is where David Cross claims to have seen Richey. If that was him, there could be a multitude of reasons for him being at a post office. But it's worth bearing in mind.


I've never had a solid stance on what became of Richey. I just don't know. I can't even say what theory I favour more. Again, I just don't know. But, since this discussion began, I've found myself wondering more and more about the two weeks he seemed to have spent just driving around and living in his car. You could say he was just revisiting old haunts he loved. But two weeks for that? In a country the size of Wales? It'd take a day or two, at most. As someone said earlier, it seems like he was waiting for something. A one-year passport could well have been it.
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  #641  
Old 05-03-2019, 00:51
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
It's come from the book, but I think people are reading into it a little too much. Seeing as names are being mentioned (mods, I'll leave it up to your discretion if you want to keep this up or not. I have no idea what is or isn't acceptable here anymore), I was told that Rob Stringer is portrayed as someone whose paramount concern is money and also, as an aside, he took great exception to Richey dressing like a holocaust victim (I don't blame him one bit and I'm not Jewish). That's all I was told. I highly doubt a book with even a slight suggestion of antisemitism would get published by a subsidiary of a large publishing house.
So it sounds like there may have been some derogatory noises about possibly Rob Stringer the possibly evil capitalist satan or something but others have making links to Jews? Others not being SHR at least not on any direct evidence offered so far but maybe with the intention of harming her which is pretty low

Also, turns out Rob Stringer isn't Jewish so just gets more bizarre but that's Chinese Whispers I guess. What's pretty ironic is that the 'source' might have been the fact that he received an award from the UJA Federation at which tongue in cheek jokes were made by a few people including the man himself and his daughters about the fact he wasn't one of the tribe, Someone saw UJA and put 2 and 2 together and made 5 (What? In-depth research there? No, just a quick Google, ha)

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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
I was told that in the book, it states that it was Jo who gave him the novel in the first place and there is no mention of it among the contents of the box. Why would he give her a book she recommended to him with instructions to read the forward? It sounds like it may have been this Vivian person, but since Emma Forrest seems to get cold feet these days talking about anything Richey related, I guess we'll never know if the story is true or heavily exaggerated. I mean, if Wire mentioned this Vivian person was with Richey that evening, there must be something to it. Still, you have to wonder why this info wasn't further investigated at the time.
In the Wales Online piece SHR says that Novel With Cocaine was left in the box for Jo as has been said before but whether it was of significance or just a parting gift is open to interpretation or at least not clear. So it doesn't sound like he did leave instructions.....I personally can't see any reason to give any credence to the Vivian story. If Nicky is supposed to be the source how was he supposed to know if he wasn't there? And it just seems ridiculous and with its implication that the band are keeping secrets spiteful. Why has it taken all these years before his sister we assume or SHR tried to trace her and when she did try aside from some remembered very brief mention by Nicky allegedly years ago there's no other evidence of her existence. It's tantalising.....but it's insubstantial


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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
If he did just start anew, I can see someone who cared about him thinking they could improve his quality of life by helping him do this. Or maybe one of his many sycophantic followers who would have done anything for him. There's a number of reasons why they probably haven't come forward as well - fear of backlash or maybe they just genuinely believe that it was his choice and they still don't think any wrong was done despite his family's grief. It's shitty to say, but I can see some people being like this.
I think the idea of a second person is too much of a stretch but sure what you don't know you can't rule out but personally I can't see that as being a possibility



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Wasn't the one-year passport theory also put forward by Simon Price in "Everything"? I distinctly recall him writing about it somewhere. So, I hope SHR isn't passing this theory off as something new. Anyway, I seem to remember they could even be picked up at Post Offices, which is where David Cross claims to have seen Richey. If that was him, there could be a multitude of reasons for him being at a post office. But it's worth bearing in mind.


I've never had a solid stance on what became of Richey. I just don't know. I can't even say what theory I favour more. Again, I just don't know. But, since this discussion began, I've found myself wondering more and more about the two weeks he seemed to have spent just driving around and living in his car. You could say he was just revisiting old haunts he loved. But two weeks for that? In a country the size of Wales? It'd take a day or two, at most. As someone said earlier, it seems like he was waiting for something. A one-year passport could well have been it.
Wasn't the David Cross sighting by a newsagents? It's hard to get any real feel for the credibility of these sightings, his was more mundane and so maybe more likely to be true but he also happened to be penpals with Lori Fidler a huge fan - coincidence hmmmn but then again that is exactly why he may have noticed him....very true but (but) I'm pretty sure the pictures of him with a shaved head weren't released till after his disappearance was made public. Would he have been recognisable if not someone you'd met before or followed? Plus I don't think he mentioned it to Lori Fidler until after he was reported missing? Could be wrong but I'm sure I must be right on that cos had he done so then even though he hadn't known at the time it would just over a week later have been picked up as a confirmed sighting? But that was before instant messages and social media etc so maybe that accounts for it. Hard to believe that there was a time when people didn't cctv every minute of their lives and post every mundane detail up for their followers to worship but I digress...
The one year passport was around till early 1996 but you could just walk in to a PO with a birth certificate and for 12 it was yours, no photo no wait (see why they got ditched can't you?!) You could only travel to certain European countries on it apparently and for no more than 3 months. I've no idea if this is something looked at in the book but you'd guess so

I feel he was driving around and sleeping in his car cos he wasn't sure which is a thought that must be very hard for his family to want to think on
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  #642  
Old 05-03-2019, 01:40
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Wasn't the David Cross sighting by a newsagents? It's hard to get any real feel for the credibility of these sightings, his was more mundane and so maybe more likely to be true but he also happened to be penpals with Lori Fidler a huge fan - coincidence hmmmn but then again that is exactly why he may have noticed him....very true but (but) I'm pretty sure the pictures of him with a shaved head weren't released till after his disappearance was made public. Would he have been recognisable if not someone you'd met before or followed? Plus I don't think he mentioned it to Lori Fidler until after he was reported missing? Could be wrong but I'm sure I must be right on that cos had he done so then even though he hadn't known at the time it would just over a week later have been picked up as a confirmed sighting? But that was before instant messages and social media etc so maybe that accounts for it. Hard to believe that there was a time when people didn't cctv every minute of their lives and post every mundane detail up for their followers to worship but I digress...
The one year passport was around till early 1996 but you could just walk in to a PO with a birth certificate and for 12 it was yours, no photo no wait (see why they got ditched can't you?!) You could only travel to certain European countries on it apparently and for no more than 3 months. I've no idea if this is something looked at in the book but you'd guess so

I feel he was driving around and sleeping in his car cos he wasn't sure which is a thought that must be very hard for his family to want to think on
Right, it was a newsagents. And that's a very valid point about the hair, because (IMO, at least) Richey looked very different once it had all been shaved off. I don't think I would have recognised him, even being familiar with him.

As for the one-year passports, that's mad! I didn't know such things existed and it's just crazy in a post 9/11 world that that was ever possible. And so cheap, as well. Richey could easily have got his hands on one of those, tbh.
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  #643  
Old 05-03-2019, 14:44
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Can't believe that, like everything else, even the mystery of a missing Manic Street Preacher has turned into a debate about anti-semitism.

We've lost our collective minds.
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  #644  
Old 05-03-2019, 15:19
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Can't believe that, like everything else, even the mystery of a missing Manic Street Preacher has turned into a debate about anti-semitism.

We've lost our collective minds.
Ha ha! To be fair SHR started it with all this silliness.
It might be stretching things a bit but it was valid to at least mention it as a possibility.

I'll await more info about the book and tear into that instead!
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  #645  
Old 05-03-2019, 15:40
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Ha ha! To be fair SHR started it with all this silliness.
It might be stretching things a bit but it was valid to at least mention it as a possibility.

I'll await more info about the book and tear into that instead!
Super!

You're right. The silliness is someone else's doing
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