Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum - Postcards From A Young Man Thread

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It might have :good:

Not that i'm asking or seeking leaks
I'm happily waiting for the 20th, not long now

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatPretender (Post 2072642)

Btw, I take exception to the remarks being made about why people are expressing their dislike for the new album. The accusations being thrown about are not only ridiculous, they're also insulting. I'll admit, I've not heard the entire album, but from what I have heard, I can tell it's not going to be my cup of tea. I've been a fan of the band since 1992 and while I consider the Manics one of my favourite bands (I literally grew up listening to them), I don't enjoy everything they've ever produced (GATS, KYE and SATT are all crap IMO), but the albums I do love, I consider some of my favs. Just because I'm likely not to enjoy their new material doesn mean I should bugger off as a fan nor does it mean I want every album to sound like THB (in fact, I've gone on record several times on this forum stating that I wish the band would be more progressive with their sound). The audacity of even implying something like that simply because someone may not like the new album's musical direction is a fucking joke!

I totally agree. Some will come and make good and bad remarks on why they don't like new material. Telling people to bugger off out of here because one doesn't agree is just as lame as someone posting new album sucks without giving a reason on why it sucks. Don't be afraid to argue why it doesn't suck, if you believe that to be the case.

The Manics have and always will be a band(more than most others) that cause friction between fans over what is good and what is not, when discussing their music.

This is not meant for anyone in particular.

Just a wee reply to those claiming that the dissenters among us are just shouting "You suck" without backing any of it up.

I can only speak for myself so I shall throw some ideas out there.

1. I've no problem with the "new sound". In fact I think "The Girl From Tiger Bay" (which is obviously part of this era - people saying it is part of the JFPL era are complete arseholes) is a fantastic song. So the moving away from the Holy Bible (God forbid!!) is not really the issue for the majority of people. The issue is....

2. ...the songs. They're not great. Why?

3. JDB's vocals sound strange. He goes on and on in the EMG DVD that he just wanted space in the songs to breathe. Well hes doing plenty of breathing (and prob scoffing some pies) in these songs. He just seems to be streeeeeeeeeeeetching out some of the words and warbling. It just sounds a bit shit. It actually also would suggest to me that maybe the music was written before the lyrics (which aficionados will know is not how this shit goes down).

4. The chord sequences sound familiar. Thats cos they are. They are quite obvious (in a bad way). Obviously there are only so many ways of sequencing hte chords, but when you stick so much to 4 bars for every chord, then change, then 4 bars....its just slow and plodding.

5. Putting in some gospel is a nice idea. Don't sing over them Jimbo.

6. Duff has the graciousness to play on a track. I couldnt hear him.

7. Solos are pretty good.

8. A lot of the tunes are just bog standard. Theyre not particularly shit, they're just very forgettable which is a shame cos the idea of this era was a good one. They just haven't pulled it off.

I can see what you're saying, everything makes sense except the last point. I don't think the tunes are forgettable. On the contrary, I'd say they're some of their catchiest melodies to date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatPretender (Post 2072642)

Experimental? Huh? I think your definition of experimental music differs greatly from the universally excepted understanding of what actually classifies music as experimental. The instrumentation they've used, or better yet, how they've chosen to incorporate them into songs is old hat. People like Burt Bacharach, Scott Walker, etc had been employing such sounds when the boys were still in diapers. Experimental implies that that the sound isn't familiar or at the very least, takes familiar sounds and turns them upside down. Usuing a sitar (though I doubt it's an actual sitar - most likely sounds generated from a keyboard, but I guess the physical release will clear that one up in the credits) is certainly different for the band, but it isn't exactly experimental in a broader sense.

I do think the Manics have been 'experimental' in their career - THB and Lifeblood are certainly proo of that - but from what little I've heard of this album (I have heard Hazelton Avenue though and I will admit, the sitar bit is the best part. Its lovely!), I don't think 'experimental' will ever be used to describe this album. It's an admittedly contrived album and therefore why would they attempt to experiment with sound when they're deliberately trying to appeal to a commercial audience?

Btw, I take exception to the remarks being made about why people are expressing their dislike for the new album. The accusations being thrown about are not only ridiculous, they're also insulting. I'll admit, I've not heard the entire album, but from what I have heard, I can tell it's not going to be my cup of tea. I've been a fan of the band since 1992 and while I consider the Manics one of my favourite bands (I literally grew up listening to them), I don't enjoy everything they've ever produced (GATS, KYE and SATT are all crap IMO), but the albums I do love, I consider some of my favs. Just because I'm likely not to enjoy their new material doesn mean I should bugger off as a fan nor does it mean I want every album to sound like THB (in fact, I've gone on record several times on this forum stating that I wish the band would be more progressive with their sound). The audacity of even implying something like that simply because someone may not like the new album's musical direction is a fucking joke!

Did I say it was an experimental album or that it classified as "experimental music"? I would never make an absurd claim as that. I even emphasized it is a POP record. I'm very familiar with experimental genres and movements, such as Free Jaz, No Wave or Tropicália. I only said I understand what cameron was trying to express by using the word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beyondgoodandevil (Post 2072654)

I think the phrase tribute album is what's causing a problem here. It makes the album sound like some cheap, off the cuff celebration to a lost member. Which it certainly is not. The interviews at the time always tended to lean towards the notion that the material left behind by Richey was of a certain artistic integrity and demanded to be used in some way. Maybe the tribute part was just a result of that process. I never personally got the impression that the tribute to Richey was the over riding purpose of that record, rather, that even 15 years on the lyrics were still pertinent and meaningful within a new context, and it was this meaning they wanted to get across. And as a result, like you say, make people aware of Richey again, as a lyricist.

Ok, I see what you mean and I totally agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRK (Post 2072515)

It goes back to what Daniel said. They need more quality control. This sounds like shit that would be left off of EMG or This is My Truth or SATT.

Well, with this I just have to disagree. It's all a question of opinion, so I really don't feel comfortable with people saying this is "shit" or has "no quality".

I consider myself quite demanding with the music I listen to (my RYM account is a good indicator of this) and although I'm a huge Manics fan (which means I can never be fully objective with them), I've never been shy of criticizing them in the past when I felt it was justified. I even had very low expectations for this record, based on this whole "one last shot at mass communication" talk and the lead single. But, guess what, I ended up being very pleasantly surprised with it! I really like the album!

Yeah, it's an unashamed collage of very famous classic pop/rock elements linked with trademark MSP ones, but it's done with such good taste, conveying an ammount of sincere delight that is too infectious to pass on. I really have a hard time believing people can prefer SATT's mediocre and phoney pomp-rock or KYE's soulless pseudo-raw sound to this set of wonderfully catchy pop songs. To each his own, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by proevpete (Post 2072751)

Then why didn't you say so, I even agree with some of your points, I just don't think it makes the album shit. However it hurts me to agree because of 'I think "The Girl From Tiger Bay" (which is obviously part of this era - people saying it is part of the JFPL era are complete arseholes)', seems a little extreme and basically twattish doesn't it?

the new album isnt shit it's very good (i think) and i hope you're all going to buy the album

Quote:

Originally Posted by cameron33 (Post 2072316)

Genuine question for the people who consider the album shit: what do you expect them to do? This album has quite a typical manics since 1996 sound (although is instrumentally/musically more experimental than most).
Apart from four or five tracks off Journal, it's surely some of the best music they've done since EMG. And Journal was a tribute album of sorts: there simply isn't going to be another Holy Bible. Perhaps some people would be happier moving onto another band, or alternatively just stop buying/listening to their new output. I'm not having a go. I can fully understand people might say the albums slightly disapponting or not as good as EMG or GT or whatever. But just saying 'it's really shit' or 'they've lost it' when it's blatantly not shit but a typically lifting, slightly cheesy in parts, fantastic in other parts new manics album . . . I think these people should find another band. If there were genuinely going to be another 20 rock albums better than PFAYM sold this year I wouldn't be writing on this forum, I would be listening to them. For those who think that PFAYM is not among the top 20 of the year i I think you should go and listen to what you consider is. I love the manics becasue I enjoy their music. No matter how great the lyrics and the ideas etc, if the music was shit I wouldn;t be here.The manics make records to be enjoyed. It's not like watching your hometown team where you're obliged to keep following them as they slide down the divisions. If you're not enjoying the music, to such an extent that you would label as "shit" a collection of songs that they've presumably spent more than a year working, why are you still wasting time on here?

the album isn't even officially out yet dude, you've gotta give people time to adjust to the notion that the band who made one of the best albums of last year have suddenly shit the bed.

i dare say the negativity will fade as the Manics make it borderline embarrassing to publically identify one's self as an interested party in any sense. leaving Forever Delayed full of people who think the peak of modern rock music is baby's first melody over predictable rows of major chords with widdly widdly guitar solos and, ironically, lyrics about the internet sucking influenced by this very messageboard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennyroyalty (Post 2072942)

i dare say the negativity will fade as the Manics make it borderline embarrassing to publically identify one's self as an interested party in any sense. leaving Forever Delayed full of people who think the peak of modern rock music is baby's first melody over predictable rows of major chords with widdly widdly guitar solos and, ironically, lyrics about the internet sucking influenced by this very messageboard.

Was that an insult? Yes, I think it was.

I reckon 'Golden Platitudes' is PFAYM's 'Doors Closing Slowly'. It seems to plod along aimlessly going nowhere, but after a few listens it really gets under your skin. The 'colonise the moon' bit gets me every time!

Did I mention I love this album? No? Oh, well I do!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarence Pistoldinner (Post 2072946)

I reckon 'Golden Platitudes' is PFAYM's 'Doors Closing Slowly'. It seems to plod along aimlessly going nowhere, but after a few listens it really gets under your skin. The 'colonise the moon' bit gets me every time!

Did I mention I love this album? No? Oh, well I do!!

I bet the choir were baffled at having to sing the line 'why colonise the moon?'.

I find amusing that some people find GP quite taxing to get into. What? No chorus?! Mad shit that like.

I rekon, and would like to think that 'A Billion Balconies Facing The Sun' was inspired by me.

I dont think the album is "shit" really. Its just quite nice. And nice is nice.

I still stand by the point that the song are not that great. Granted the only chance I get to listen to it is while Im writing away, but they do sound like they are flowing all into one. Theres just no discernible stand out tracks really. Yes some are better than others and everyone loves A-I, GP, and I quite like AWMIE, though PFAYM is prob my fav, but they are not woah moments. They do make INLJTEOW sound like it should be a leading single. And I do like the video very very much.

It's nice. It's a nice album. Nice. Some of it is a bit crap but in general its pleasant. And nice. Nice.

It's still a 'pre-digital' album. Although you probably can pick and choose with iTunes or buy what you want through various downloads. I've paid a small fortune for CDs where I've liked only one song. Factor in a few years ago when buying CDs in the UK was a horror in terms of the exchange rate.

Every song on the album is listenable. It's a pop album, and the Manics delivered what they said they were going to do.

In my corner of the world, what's on the radio is bile, uninspiring, and boring. Completely soulless and corporate. Whatever it's worth, this album still makes me smile and want to listen to it. I have a fairly short attention span and I'm still not bored. The Manics have their job. Entertained me.