That's... actually kind of depressing. I know how the charts work in this day and age, a band like the Manics aren't going to get the long runs they used to, but to not even hit the top 100 your sales have to be in the hundreds. So basically the first week was pretty much the entire album sales, and that was significantly down on the previous few. Hm.

I can't believe that it's gone out of the top 100. I had a look yesterday while waiting for my flight home from my holiday and the more I scrolled I kept thinking I must have missed it. I know the charts don't matter as much these days due to how they work, but still, it just shows how few people are buying new music by the band now sadly once the die hard fans have bought their copy / copies.

I'm also surprised ithe album is out of the charts already. I think there has been more promotion in interviews from the band than usual. I'm sure there will be many formats bought by fans though. I just recently bought the cds, though initially the vinyl which I'm starting a collection, though probably the vinyl chart doesn't count as much.The single vinyl bonus was only available at the store I think was at no,1 last week though sadly at 13 now. I'm glad the band are still planning ahead though and writing. I'm looking forward to the tour.

It doesn't really matter to me. The chart position is a bit of fun from the fan side, and of course a bit of an old school obsession for the band, but really they will care more now about the tour being sold out and the massive list of festivals and one offs they are doing this summer - that's where they make the real money. I would expect more trips to Japan etc in the autumn/winter.

It's clear they've made an album they are happy with so it's all good.

Yep. There's a reason tickets are on the pricier end now, and it's because bands need to make more from touring than they did before. So gigs and merch bring in more revenue (though they're still pricey to put on) and the streaming side barely makes a dent.

It was nice to see they were above Oasis re release in the chart last week. I think the tours and festivals are important to them as they love playing live, their interviews are always interesting and fun. I always love how casual they are about their amazing albums and success. I'm hoping they include Critical Thinking and unplayed songs in the tour sets.

If you can be 6th in the Physical album chart (7th for Album Sales, 10th for Downloads, and 17th for Vinyl) on too few sales to crack the combined Top 100 that includes weighted streaming I think it says more about the state of the charts and the dominance of streaming than anything. Which I would agree is kind of depressing.

How many sales gets you 6th in the physical sales chart? Is it really in the hundreds? That would mean I could self-fund my own top 10 album if I stop buying multiple Manics releases for a few years(!)

But yeah, I only really care in as much as I know they do. I don’t feel like it’s just getting old, I think the charts really are just less meaningful nowadays, for a variety of reasons.

“The ecstasy of making things worse / seems to have become a worldwide curse”

Anyway, still loving this album more and more. Recency bias in full effect maybe but I’d be ranking it quite high if I did an album ranking today, but I’m gonna give it a bit longer before I do that I think.

It's difficult to say because obviously it changes week-by-week, but there are many albums that have reached the top 100 albums with barely more than 1,000 that I've read about in the past, and sales continue to drop year-on-year, so if it's at 101, maybe it sold 1,000. If it's at 135, maybe it sold 750. The sales will be published somewhere I'm sure, but I'm not sure it's worth paying for industry publications to find out.

I find it all fascinating, to be honest. I'm still staggered by how quickly download sales have tapered off in general. And, of course, with numerous deluxe editions and things going on, it's actually impossible to get a good sense of what's been sold really. How many fans actually bought Critical Thinking? How many in the UK? How many bought two copies? How many bought five? I think the number who bought multiple was probably not that high, but even if it was a couple of thousand, that's still maybe enough to knock off 5-10,000 sales, which brings the total down massively.

I also find it odd how some artists with lengthy careers sell even worse these days. Underword's latest album reached number 43 - that can only be a couple of thousand sales, which strikes me as bonkers. Idlewild's last two have only scraped the top 20. I wonder how many acts are living largely off income from their biggest hits, either newly gained or stuff in the bank. A lot of small-and-mid sized acts actually struggle to make money from touring, despite the general belief that live is where the money comes from, so a lot of these bands wouldn't be able to survive on those kind of chart placings if they were starting out.

I'd love to know what chart position it would have reached if there were no pre-orders and no multiple formats being bought in bundles by collectors, if it was just the old school CD or black vinyl available and being purchased upon release. Probably really low.

I've touched on this earlier in this thread but besides us lot here and whoever follows their social media, I'd imagine many wouldn't know this album exists, I know some fans who haven't heard a new Manics album or attended a gig for 10-20 years.

But that's the way it is. I don't see the problem with this.

Me neither, hence why I'm not surprised at how quickly it fell in the charts.

A friend in a Discord group who's a big music fan posted yesterday about just listening to "that new Manics album that's come out," which felt very apt to me, a kind of "apparently they've done a new album," kind of attitude.

Do they get much play on 6 Music?

Having had a week or so of listening to it regularly, I am just not getting it as an album. I'm at the point where I'm going back to individual tracks, but don't think it works as an album as a whole.

The sudden switch to the 80's sound in the second half of the album is a strange one, especially after hearing the demos and what the songs might have sounded like. I know it's not always necessary, but the album seems to lack an overall theme which brings it together.

After the gigs this year, I can't see any of these songs being included regularly on setlists again (maybe Decline and Fall). I would say that would be the case for the previous two albums as well (though I do think International Blue should be a staple) which kind of speaks volumes really.

They clearly still remain in thrall to the commercial performance of albums and have always seemed to rate their own albums according to how commercially successful they have been. Will the relatively poor commercial performance of this album result in the band denouncing it as we have seen with others in the past? With the live shows probably relying heavily on tracks from two albums made nearly 30 years ago now, might this be the point where they begin to question carrying on? After all, there are only so many times that Nicky Wire can tell us that he's sick and tired of being sick and tired, hates the world and wants to be alone.

Listening to Even in Exile at the weekend, it did strike me that it's probably the best and most interesting Manics related work since Futurology (especially if. Verses Echo With Tear Flow had been included in. place of one of the instrumentals). With some of the songs on Critical Thinking apparently being recorded separately and sounding like they belong on different albums, I genuinely wonder if going their separate ways might be the best option at this point.

Having had a week or so of listening to it regularly, I am just not getting it as an album. I'm at the point where I'm going back to individual tracks, but don't think it works as an album as a whole.

The sudden switch to the 80's sound in the second half of the album is a strange one, especially after hearing the demos and what the songs might have sounded like. I know it's not always necessary, but the album seems to lack an overall theme which brings it together.

After the gigs this year, I can't see any of these songs being included regularly on setlists again (maybe Decline and Fall). I would say that would be the case for the previous two albums as well (though I do think International Blue should be a staple) which kind of speaks volumes really.

They clearly still remain in thrall to the commercial performance of albums and have always seemed to rate their own albums according to how commercially successful they have been. Will the relatively poor commercial performance of this album result in the band denouncing it as we have seen with others in the past? With the live shows probably relying heavily on tracks from two albums made nearly 30 years ago now, might this be the point where they begin to question carrying on? After all, there are only so many times that Nicky Wire can tell us that he's sick and tired of being sick and tired, hates the world and wants to be alone.

Listening to Even in Exile at the weekend, it did strike me that it's probably the best and most interesting Manics related work since Futurology (especially if. Verses Echo With Tear Flow had been included in. place of one of the instrumentals). With some of the songs on Critical Thinking apparently being recorded separately and sounding like they belong on different albums, I genuinely wonder if going their separate ways might be the best option at this point.

I agree with most of what you are saying here although I don't think they need to call it quits, I just think they need to be a bit more adventurous. The music on Critical Thinking (the actual track) is almost an extension to Futurology and at least a bit different but sadly I'm not a fan of Nicky's voice, not his fault, that's my issue I guess. At moment I'd love the idea of them going somewhere else and using another producer/engineer etc and seeing what happens and working on an actual album of songs rather than coming into the studio on their own over the period of a year, because that's exactly what the album sounds like to me. I'm at the point now where a JDB album and tour would excite me more, because I think he would at least change the setlist up a bit. I know James said recently that he wants Sean to come into his own and write a mega hit, and although that's probably a bit tongue in cheek at least it would be something interesting, by all accounts Sean had a massive input on Lifeblood and GATS two of my favourite albums. For me, the biggest change in dynamic wasn't necessarily just when Richey left, it was when Nicky started writing music, that's went it all went a bit samey for me. Does that make sense?