19. Hold me like a backing track....

You know, sometimes, following the setlists on Twitter and FD kind of makes me think it's ok that I can't make any of the gigs because of work. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Nicky wire is wearing a hat, that must be his new thing!

20. Tsunami (you know it was either this or the everlasting!)

Two buttons undone James? Stop it you tease!

21. Let Robeson sing because clearly the Manics don't have a new album to promote or anything!

22. People give in, Naysmith needs to use the strings patch on the keyboard

23. Show me the wonder, we paid a lot from Gavin Fitzjohn god damnit and we're milking him for all he's worth

Wait a minute, last minute substitution...
23. Slash N burn! Out of tune backing vocals are in these days!

24. Design for life


Now I can see no one bothers posting the setlists here anymore...

Thank you! You have kept me entertained on my train journey with your commentary on each song! :)

1. International Blue
2. You stole the soon
3. No surface all feeling
4. Distance colours
5. Your love alone
6. 4. Ever delayed
7. Dylan and Caitlyn
8. Motorcycle emptiness
9. A song for departure
10. Masses against the classes
11. Horses under starlight
12. Ocean Spray
13. If you tolerate
14. Sleepflower into Faster acoustic
15. Kevin carter acoustic
16. You love us
17. Walk me to the bridge
18. Hold me like a heaven
19. Tsunami
20. Let Robeson Sing
21. People Give In
22. Slash N Burn
23. Design for life

You know, in all honesty, reading it as a list its not so bad.

YSTS, D&C, Horses, Faster, KC (ok maybe that's a lot) are the ones that I would change.

What a gorgeous setlist. I think Slash n Burn and Horses under Starlight go well with the album.

I just want the second half of RIF to get a foot in the setlist. Instead we get the songs that rely on backing tracks to fill out the soundscape.

I like Let Robeson Sing but it kills the crowd every time, use the slot for In Eternity or a song for the Sadness...

I can't say i'm hugely disappointed that i won't be seeing them this time based on the set list,
apart from the odd rarity like song for departure which i really would like to hear live.
Not fussed on forever delayed or horses under starlight really - as for the latter,
they have far better instrumentals that i'd be disappointed not to hear live.

Yep absolutely agree. In fact, it's absolutely ridiculous there is no sequels, BA, In Eternity, etc in the setlist. They really shouldn't be playing any EMG or THB in the set at all.

Yeah I agree.

I know they are playing Horses because of your man on the trumpet. Does he play guitar on other songs as well?

At least from the pictures looked like their was a decent crowd tonight!

As my train has broken down, here's what I think tonight's setlist should have looked like:

1. International Blue
2. No surface all feeling
3. You love us
4. You stole the sun
5. Your love alone
6. 4. Ever delayed
7. Dylan and Caitlyn
8. If you tolerate
9. A song for departure
10. Masses against the classes
11. Horses under starlight
12. Ocean Spray
13. People Give In
14. Tsunami Acoustic
15. Liverpool Revisited acoustic
16. Sequels for forgotten wars
17. Walk me to the bridge
18. Hold me like a heaven
19. Prologue to History
20. In Eternity
21. Motown Junk
22. Motorcycle Emptines
23. Design for life

Just back from the gig. Sleepflower acoustic was two verses and two choruses long

You jammy sods!

Gig absolutely bombed.Genuinely spent most of it cringing at the lack of atmosphere and general stagnancy.It was just...sad.Nicky begging people to ‘pretend it’s 1992 and we’re in King Tuts’.James doing sleepflower acoustic and trying to get the half full arena crowd to do the chorus alone and there was just...nobody really singing it.The most singularly soul crushing moment of my Manics career.Sums up the gig.When even ADFL doesn’t feel euphoric it’s devastating.

Sadly I have to agree with the previous post. That was a dull insipid performance. Not helped by 1/4 full massive venue. Why not play a smaller venue, that way you can try and create an atmosphere?? It is pretty embarrasing when James misses lines hoping the crowd will fill in for him. It did not work tonight.

Set list was pretty poor in my opinion. There was no decent banter or interaction from James and Nicky. They were very much going through the motions. Merchandise was extortionate.

I recently read a newspaper interview with the Manics and I couldn't stop thinking that they now vote Conservative. Tonight was a very Tory performance.

That's a shame! The Holy Bible gig in the Barrowlands was bloody immense. Might put it as my number two. Let's hope for a winter club tour!

Erm What?

I'll second this and add a...what the fuck?!
It's all very well not enjoying a performance but it's another thing to go saying batshit crazy things like this.
Also - citation needed. What interview?

Yeah.

The big disappointment I had with the gig was in how little James contributed. I remember seeing the Manics for the first time and, in between frantically jumping around, being absolutely amazed with how this one guy could fill the room almost single-handedly with his lead, rhythm, and incredible voice. His guitar playing was incredible - so complex, detailed, and crisp and full-sounding.

Tonight though, James barely touched his guitar, and either resorted to falsettoing on or skipping the more difficult lines altogether. It was brilliant when he hit that high note at the end of the Motorcycle Emptiness middle-8 in full voice, but that was the only vocal he did all night that was really impressive. In terms of the guitar, it was just sad to see Murray taking over lead duties on songs like No Surface All Feeling, and relegate James to something of a second guitarist in his own band, only to be wheeled out for the occasional backing chord and solo.

And, christ. All the backing tracks. If you can't play it live, maybe just play something else instead, and I'll put the CD on myself when I get home.

And Horses Under Starlight. Fair enough, play an instrumental track. But, if they must play an instrumental track, why not one which showcases how far they've come as musicians, or, at the very least, one which is actually good? That slot in the setlist could've gone to The Vorticists, You Know It's Going To Hurt, Dreaming A City, Manorbier, etc, but instead, they went for the blandest instrumental they've ever done. All it did was kill the (already weak) atmosphere. Blarg.

I appreciate that the Manics are getting older and it's getting harder for them to put on an intense show, but maybe the way around that is to split the performance up into two sections (like they did for the EMG and THB shows), or to use the traditional trick of doing encores. Better that than half-arse it for the whole show.

Maybe phasers is thinking of the Guardian article with the misleading headline criticising Corbyn? Nicky would never vote Tory but I believe he has an immense distrust of Corbyn and McDonnell.

Dear lord,the backing tracks for HMLAH and People Give In were cranked up so loud I had to leave my spot to stop my ears bleeding.Clearly cranked up to make them sound like the arena anthems they were written to be but the point is the *audience* should have been singing the ‘woahs’. Horses Under Starlight was a car crash.

Can anyone explain what was going on with Wayne Murray a)being louder than James b)doing unnecessary backing vocals c)in general on Dylan and Caitlin?I thought he was miming to the Anchoress’ voice at first but I actually have no idea.

I was at Newcastle, definitely going to avoid arenas in the future. Even most of the people right near the front had lots of personal space. And not that many people seemed to even recognise all the songs.

Oh, and also I still have tinnitus, bit worried the shite sound system at the arena has done permanent damage :/

I did notice James using a throat spray several times, I wonder if he's not feeling 100% for this tour?

Thanks for the reviews guys. It's quite sad to hear forum stalwarts having these experiences! Glasgow is normally a good place for them as well. Without being critical of the band, it is just an age thing? Or is it bad booking and going for arenas? Bit of a bummer all around.

Earplugs are your friend. I haven’t done a gig without earplugs (apart from once when I forgot them and boy, did I regret that) since the PPF tour in 2005 when I had ringing ears for 3 days after the Leeds gig. I don’t know how so many people don’t wear them tbh; I find it too painful without them now.

My ears are still ringing from the PPF tour.

Shame to read some negative reviews here about the gigs and serious lack of atmsphere, it seems the venues are too big sadly to sell out for our boys now :( I guess the new songs aren't connecting much at all with the crowds who half of which probably didn't buy the album yet? I've watched some more videos on Youtube and James has handed more guitar duties to Wayne Murray which is pretty baffling.

Roughly how many where there last night? Looked pretty full from photos although I’m aware it wasn’t the full arena set up.

This x 1000. Get a good set of Elacin earplugs for a tenner.

Lots of scathing appraisals of last night's gig, very interesting. I wasn't at the last two gigs but I am going to Birmingham and Cardiff and reading what people have to say isn't making me look forward to seeing them to be honest.

I absolutely love the band and obviously the recent album but there are a number of issues I have with them as per my notes below!

Arenas: It looks like the last two gigs weren't close to selling out and the crowds haven't been the best, which is what you would expect to happen in an arena situation with the Manics. However, the visuals seem to be stunning and I don't know if this was a deciding factor for them when planning their tour because you can't do something at a smaller venue (although it will be interesting to see how they play it at Llandudno).

JDB's voice and general laziness: I think it's very evident on the recent album that he's lost a lot of his range in the last few years due to smoking and age and I think he struggles to sing the older material, hence why there's an emphasis on some of the easier songs e.g. LRS, Ocean Spray, SMTW etc and a reliance on Wayne Murray to sing more. Nothing he can do about that but it baffles me why he doesn't do more on guitar. Could that be an age thing too?

Wayne Murray / Gavin Fitzjohn / Nicholas Naysmythe (as they call him): Just a short history lesson before my rant - in the old days, post-Richey when it was just three of them (and a keyboardist), the live sound was a bit flat at times when James did his solos etc as there would be no rhythm guitar. Then they toyed around with additional percussion back on the FD tour and then bought in Guy Massey on additional guitar. That's when the sound got better. Following that they replaced Guy Massey with Wayne Murray and Naysmith with Sean Read. That's when the sound was pretty good and at its peak (in my opinion). Since getting rid of Sean Read (treated a bit unfairly if you ask me) they've bought Naysmith back in and bought in Gavin Fitzjohn to do the horns - and more recently he's playing guitar too (and apparently singing?). So... the question is why do they now have three guitarists on stage, a keyboardist that can't sing, a rhythm guitarist that sings like a girl and a separate horn/guitar player who chips in now and again. Now, Wayne Murray, some might say he's a nice guy (although not in my experience), he's a crap singer, not an amazing guitarist (I've seen JDB glare at him a few times for slowing songs down) and doesn't add anything else of value to the band. His turn on this tour as the Wankeress has been short of cringeworthy. I'd guess there are hundreds of session singer-guitarists that are better than him at both things and would jump at the chance but JDB seems to be intent on getting his mates in, same with Gavin Fitzjohn. Keeping Sean Read in the band would have been a decent thing to do, as he could sing better than Wayne Murray, play sax, percussion and keyboards too - not sure why James felt he had to go (I'm a bit biased as I've worked with Sean). Anyway, bottom line is that they just need to stick to five members on stage and keep it to two guitars.

I’d have thought the question is, how do you have six people onstage and still need a backing track which sounds cheap and awful?

They don’t care. And to be honest, in terms of ever seeing them again, neither do I. JDB is now as lazy as Nicky and that makes for an incredibly shit live act.

Kinda glad l'm offshore for most of the duration of this tour and didn't splash huge amounts of cash on a trip from Norway. From first release of Arena dates it looked so wrong, they're way past that, one off at the o2 fine, time will tell.

I've been going to see them since pretty much the beginning and last night was the most disappointing Manic's gig I've been at. Close to zero atmosphere. I don't know the exact crowd numbers but it was much busier than I expected.

I don't think the venue helps, I've had similar experiences with other bands, the sound is generally great but even in a totally full gig it never feels packed.

I love the new album but some of the set list choices/order need to be thought threw if they want to bring the crowd to life. Horses followed by Ocean Spray mid set just totally killed any chance of things picking up. Hearing 4Ever Delayed was nice but it really does nothing for creating an atmosphere. When he done Sleepflower acoustic I thought nice, but he just had to sing the chorus rather than letting the crowd. I'm not sure if he is conscious how hard it is for the general male population to reach B and high C notes that he regularly hits on songs, so for me getting the crowd to sing along never works.

Hopefully back to the Barras next time!