Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum - Which EMG songs were written before Richey disappeared?

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This part of the band's career has always interested me the most - I always find it pretty amazing that the band who were belting out the likes of 'White America' at the Astoria in Dec 94, were recording stuff like 'Dead Passive' only months later. The difference in musical style couldn't be greater

It's why the Manics are so amazing, their creativity comes in so many forms, Richey's condition must have affected their musical style massively, or maybe THB was a release of angry energy that wasn't there for EMG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieslowski (Post 2093705)

This has been bugging me for the past few days. I've seen people claim in the past that even if Richey hadn't disappeared, EMG would still have sounded like it did since they had already written some of it before he went. But having just finished A Version Of Reason the other day, it reminded me that even the songs that Richey had apparently heard weren't necessarily how they ended up turning out. Here's how I think they break down:

Before he disappeared
Small Black Flowers That Grow In The Sky - I'm positive that Richey had heard and approved the music for this one
Removables - this was written soon after THB, I believe
No Surface All Feeling - since the final version supposedly contains bits of Richey playing guitar, then it's safe to say this was already written before he disappeared

After he disappeared
A Design For Life - the two-page poem it was based on was written in mid-1995
Enola/Alone - inspired by Nicky's wedding photo with Richey and Phillip, who had both now gone
Everything Must Go - about them carrying on after Richey
Australia - Nicky wanting to escape the events of 1995

Not sure
Elvis Impersonator - certainly begun when Richey was around, but since Nicky had to finish off the words himself, then presumably the music wasn't finished either - perhaps explaining the massive musical difference between the first verse and the rest of the song?
Kevin Carter - a Richey lyric, but I believe he didn't like the first "draft" James did, and I think I've read that the final version was what James thought Richey would have liked, i.e. Richey never actually heard the version that went on to be recorded
The Girl Who Wanted To Be God - from the Raindrops sessions, so certainly one of the earliest songs written, and supposed to be the one lyric the actually sat down and co-wrote, but does anyone know if the music was written before Richey disappeared?
Interiors - can't recall seeing anything that suggests when this was written - anyone know?
Further Away - a Nicky lyric from on tour in 1994, but I have no idea if the music itself was written around then. Being the weakest track on the album, I can imagine it perhaps being a late inclusion

Can anyone shed any light on this? I'm basically trying to figure out if EMG could have ended up being an album I would have been more happy with, because I feel that the ones that were definitely post-Richey songs pretty much define the sound of the album.

The Girl Who Wanted To Be God is an interesting one - it was one of the earliest tracks recorded, think it was in July 95 at Real World studio's, along with the 'poppier' take of Australia which was on EMG 10th anniversary. But the band weren't keen on Stephen Hague's production, so went to Mike Hedges instead. Have always assumed that Richey must have heard a demo of this track, as otherwise they wouldn't have used it on the album, but its interesting because I find it hard to believe that Richey would have been that keen on it, based on where he was at musically in early 95.
For the record I think its massively underrated, and would stand happily alongside many of their singles in a setlist today

Quote:

Originally Posted by nimrod (Post 2106594)

Plus, you can sing the chorus of Girl Who Wanted To Be God along to the opening guitar riff of Hazelton Avenue!! Forget Kravitz, they copied themselves!

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Originally Posted by The Vorticist (Post 2096007)

What did James say exactly about it? Because as far as I can tell the rhythm guitar bit at the end of NSAF sounds very much like Richey's guitar playing (check out the Glastonbury 94 performances when Richey actually played, the tone and overall sound of his guitar sounds pretty close as far as tone goes to whats played at the end of NSAF.)

This from what I can gather is one of those songs where bits of the demo were kept. From what I know, Richey does play on the demo, however when it came to the EMG sessions, James added the ending onto the track. Initially it would seem Richey appears on the choruses and intro of the final track, certainly not in the verses or the ending.

Listening to the demo, tracks have definitely been cut into the final version, the choruses are hugely beefed up, which would suggest James layered it somewhat with more of his own tracks. Even if Richey does play on this it would be hard to hear it in the layers of guitars anyhow.

Coming back to this thread a looong time later having just listened to the EMG special edition cd again.

Re:the demo of 'Small Black Flowers' - as this is purely accoustic with no overdubs, I assume that this must be the version that Richey heard in James' car the day before he disappeared

One thing that did interest me, didn't James say on the last tour that Enola/Alone was gonna be considered as the lead single, before Design For Life took off (at Wolves I think), which kinda went against my understanding that ADFL was the first thing they wrote and was always seen as their comeback?
I could be mis-remembering

No One Knows What Its Like To Be Me sounds as though it was recorded early on, musically it's very THB-era (especially the demo version) and i'm sure they once said it was written during that albums tour of before possibly. Further Away does too in demo form, certainly lyrically that one comes from 1994.

Would be good to know exactly what came before Feb 1995 and what came after. They definitely said around the time in one interview that they were going to go for something more melodic on the 4th album, despite Richey's crazy Screamadelica/Pantera wishes. Judge Yourself was supposed to be a one-off anyway.

I'm fairly sure that they spent a few days at the House In The Woods studios in early 95 so you'd think that a fair few demo's would have been made there in Richey's presence.

Does anyone know whether any of the tracks on the Everything Must Go bonus cd date from those sessions?

Also on the subject of Judge Yrself - did they re-record this for the Lipstick Traces album or is the version on there the 1995 original?

I bet Nicky has all of this information documented somewhere!!

Judge YrSelf was partially or wholly redone, I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UEF (Post 2612935)

Judge YrSelf was partially or wholly redone, I think.

Can I used this opportunity to say that song is possibly the worst manics song ever

boring and stale by the second listen

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven (Post 2097638)

Why? Who can say music-wise for it does mark a departure from earlier songs although it fits the lyrics perfectly & the lyrics pretty much sum up all the band have really stood for .... we can't know for sure what he'd have made of it but what's not to love. The band got a song with the line Libraries gave us power in at number 2.......he must have dreamt of such a day

Everyone always says they know what richey would have thought, but personally I think he and the band would have probably had similar ideas. They grew up together, spent so much time together...