I'm just going to go to Manchester with low expectations and hope that the lacklustre response the boys had last night is partly down to it being midweek (not sure big arena gigs work anyway when it isn't a weekend and everyone is more relaxed *tipsy* / doesn't have one eye on getting up for work the next day)

So many folk I saw last night were pie-eyed from drinking. It's not really an excuse to say there was no atmosphere due to it being midweek, I've been in gigs there midweek with it packed full and an amazing atmosphere. It was down to the band being completely wrong for the venue.

Good advice. I've never had tinnitus last more than 24 hours before, it's a bit scarey!

But for anyone who knows anything about the manics will know that growing up where they did jobs did give people meaning, the
"presbyterian work ethic" they've spoken about many times so to ascribe it to a tory attitude when we know what they believe in and have
written music about for 30 years baffles me. I can't imagine it would apply to many people now though, granted, when you have
zero hours, stagnating wages and no job security.

To whom is this album condescending and dismissive? As far as i can see there are a lot of legitimate targets in there like the establishment
and particularly tech companies, whereas on an album like postcards and songs like engage with your shadow i just felt nicky was
condescending to people using social media with no nuance. On this album you have songs like people give in which sometimes i see
as dismissive of people and other times i see as a great anthem to the resilience of people and that theme runs right through the album.
I've seen a lot of people getting positive energy from it but ymmv i guess.

Yes I am aware of the Manics' history and the history of their locality, but as you said, it's not a progressive outlook to be begging for heavy industry to come back with the way the world is now. I didn't ascribe it to a Tory attitude, I said it was veering close to a similar outlook on the perception of people's enterprising and worth. It's also insulting for them to be talking about 'proper, blue collar jobs' - so other jobs aren't proper? Thank you for your opinion when only one of you has ever held a typical job.

I misspoke regarding the second part, I meant the tone of the interviews surrounding the album. It's condescending to younger generations. The Manics don't want to move with the times and would rather say they 'pity' younger generations instead of making an effort themselves to join in with the world as it is now. Lamenting the loss of cassettes, the print NME, and 'tangible' things I do understand on one level, but on another level I find it a bit ridiculous. On a limited budget I would rather pay £10 a month to Spotify for all the music I could consume, than have to pay £16 for one CD which will eventually just wind up contributing to plastics pollution and landfill anyway.

Added on to that, fairly sure in one interview they were insinuating (or simply stating) that the youth of today aren't as passionate about music, which is just plain wrong. They're just not passionate about a group of older white men who are making no effort to engage with modern times and who like to say they're political but who have recently conveniently dodged questions about pressing political matters like Brexit and Labour's future. I said to my husband at the gig last night that seeing a teenager at a Manics gig is a rarity now.

A last bugbear I have is that Nicky always talks about being 'burnt out' after endless writing and researching for albums but I see no evidence in his lyrics of anything worthy of burnout; not compared to the likes of someone like Janelle Monae who has released several intricate concept albums in a row. This album and all the press surrounding it has just reeked of completely phoning it in with bland lyrics and bland music, and of externalising blame via the 'computers are bad and we're confused' bandwagon.

As someone pointed out to me, the mixture of ego and apathy on the band's part re:the album and arena tour has been staggering and it was brutally visible last night at the gig.

Christ, barely have I read so much utter bollocks.

With regards to which part of the thread? What I said? That's not only my opinion but the opinion of a number of fans I know who have been following the band for years. It might be bollocks to you but not to some. I know you can't please all of the people all of the time but there's a real sense for a lot of us that they're sliding into what they said they would never become. After last night I'd rather not see them again than go back to another arena gig.

Yes, & I’ve been reading that same shit for 20 years.

Well good for you. I’ve also read comments for nearly 20 years. I haven’t felt that way myself before but I feel that way now and I’m entitled to express my dissatisfaction as much as you’re entitled to disagree.

For those who are mentioning the PPF tour as the best they've seen the band, give the extras on No Manifesto dvd / blu ray a look, there's about 4 songs on there from that tour :) I watched them the other day along with the film. I'm hoping the band have some inclination as to how the crowds are at their gigs and what they could do to change things up, etc. Maybe Sean needs to get on here and read stuff.

So edgy...

Why bother engaging with an argument when a snarky one liner will do...

I thought the fact that the emphasis in chorus is put on the lyric “people stay strong” rather than the title gives it more of an optimistic edge than if it was the other way round.

But then I enjoyed the Glasgow gig, so what do I know. I get the criticism about the venue being far too big for them, but from where we were (about ten rows from the front at Nicky’s side) I thought it was better than the EMG gig in the same venue two years ago.

The Guardian live review was very middling and it led to a lot of negativity towards the band in the on-line comments. The review seemed to set the tone; the paper did a much more positive article about them recently and the comments were much brighter.

The views on here about the shows so far also seem less than enthusiastic and I can't help but think it's about half full cavernous venues which don't help the band or the audience. Arena shows seem to have been a serious miscalculation.

Glad to hear someone enjoyed it!

+1 for this feeling.

The last time I saw them in an arena was 2004 for the LB tour in Nottingham and Razorlight, the support act got a bigger reaction.

I absolutely hate backing tracks in live shows. I always used to joke with my other half that her 'pop' acts always needed them to fill out the sound. You would think with SIX musicians onstage there would be ways of limiting backing to a necessary minimum.

I'm also going to see James, Nicky and Sean. I don't really care if Wayne can play the lead to all the songs without fault - I'm there to see James play them as he's the spectacle.

Also, there aren't enough complex songs to warrant 3 guitar players. Most the of the Manics core sound is a strong rhythm part and strong lead.

I really hope my mood perks up for Manchester as at the moment I'm expecting to come away not wanting to see them again 😢