The Manics and John Cale

[Phil C]

I've recently been really getting into John Cale's solo albums and I've noticed a couple of connections with the Manics, some suggest influence and others are almost certainly just co-incidences.

There are the obvious ones - James playing two songs with Cale in the documentary film about him, Cale then appearing on 'Auto-Intoxication', I think Nick once said they would like Cale to produce a Manics album, and the Manics have covered Cale's 'The Endless Plain Of Fortune' on the 'National Treasures' vinyl as well as James covering it solo. I believe Cale curated the Nico tribute concert that James covered 'Janitor Of Lunacy' at as well.

On top of this I was listening to Cale's 'Fear' album, and heard his superb 'Ship Of Fools' for the first time, and it struck me that the track could well have been an influence on the 'music box' element of 'Builder Of Routines' (judge for yourselves - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGPC-ZKrrtY )

And I was just reading an interview with Cale which said his 2005 track 'Hey Ray' was about Ray Johnson, who was the subject of the Manics' b-side 'Locust Valley'.

I'm still working my way through Cale's back-catalogue and I'm far from an expert in his stuff, so I was wondering if anyone else here has noticed any other connections/influences?

[Bathtub]

I don't know how much I see a connection musically, but I have always found Cale a fascinating figure, how he went from a small town in Wales to one of the most influential bands in modern history.

Fear and Slow Dazzle are phenomenal records.

[TheCasual]

Never really got into Cale. But he's a fantastic musician and can play anything.

I love the Valet Underground and Transfer by Lou Reed.

[( )]

Cale produced The Stooges and the Manics like Iggy pop.

[Scarecrow]

I like John Cale. I found his discography difficult to tackle though; there are so many obscure soundtracks that are very difficult to find, and some of his strongest albums are out of print.

Music for a New Society is very much my favourite, very morose. Honi Soit, Helen of Troy, Fear, and moments of other '70s and '80s albums are excellent. That 83/84 period when he was coked up and having paranoid breakdowns all of the time produced some excellent live recordings, even if they did lead to the only album of his sadly never released on vinyl (Caribbean Sunset).

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by NasalScarecrow

I like John Cale. I found his discography difficult to tackle though; there are so many obscure soundtracks that are very difficult to find, and some of his strongest albums are out of print.

Music for a New Society is very much my favourite, very morose. Honi Soit, Helen of Troy, Fear, and moments of other '70s and '80s albums are excellent. That 83/84 period when he was coked up and having paranoid breakdowns all of the time produced some excellent live recordings, even if they did lead to the only album of his sadly never released on vinyl (Caribbean Sunset).

Not true - I have 'Caribbean Sunset' on vinyl. I found it in Reckless Records in Soho.

I'm working through the Cale discography - I've just downloaded 'Artificial Intelligence' from iTunes and bought his '5 Tracks' E.P. from ebay. The former is a dated synth-rock album (in fact, coming at the end of the 1980s it would have sounded dated upon release), although not without good moments ('Dying On The Vine' in particular), and I've not listened to latter yet, but I've read that Cale regards it as the release on which he got closest to what he wanted, so looking forward to hearing it later this evening.

Because I love a list, here's the Cale albums/E.P.s I have;

Vintage Violence (1970)
The Academy In Peril (1972)
Paris 1919 (1973)
Fear (1974)
Slow Dazzle (1975)
Helen Of Troy (1975)
Animal Justice E.P. (1977) (vinyl)
Sabotage (1979) (vinyl)
Caribbean Sunset (1984) (vinyl)
Artificial Intelligence (1988)
Walking On Locusts (1996)
5 Tracks (2003)
HoboSapiens (2003)
Black Acetate (2005)
Shifty Adventures In Nookie Wood (2012) (vinyl)

[TurnItUp]

This is well worth getting hold of, hopefully at a lower price!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fragments-Ra...a+rainy+season

Rob

[TurnItUp]

Apparently 'Music for New Society' is to be re-released next year. This is a useful site for Cale info:

http://werksman.blogspot.nl/search/label/John%20Cale

Rob

[Routine Builder]

Nice!

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by TurnItUp

Apparently 'Music for New Society' is to be re-released next year. This is a useful site for Cale info:

http://werksman.blogspot.nl/search/label/John%20Cale

Rob

Great news and thanks for pointing me to this site!

[TurnItUp]

Originally Posted by Phil C

Great news and thanks for pointing me to this site!

Cheers. Roundhouse gig on 3.2.16 on sale - seated only so be quick if interested. Worth keeping a look out in case other dated added.

[Routine Builder]

It's a great site, probably the only Cale fansite worth the name.

[Routine Builder]

Here's the full site...

http://werksman.home.xs4all.nl/cale/

[Routine Builder]

Can't say I particularly like what I've heard of M:FANS. The original was so desolate and cold whereas M:FANS sounds bright and noisy....

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Can't say I particularly like what I've heard of M:FANS. The original was so desolate and cold whereas M:FANS sounds bright and noisy....

The original was desolate and cold...and lacking in anything even approaching a tune. I mean, I like desolation ('The Holy Bible' is my favourite album) but original album is a bit a trial to listen to. Actually, it isn't M:FANS that shows it up but the acoustic demos of 'Chinese Envoy' and 'Thoughtless Kind' which are included as extras at the end of the 'Music' re-issue - they're both much better than anything on the album itself (and much better sung too).

'M:FANS' really has to be thought of as a totally different album to 'Music For A New Society' - it's more of a follow-up to 'Shifty Adventures In Nookie Wood'. Several of the songs only really have the lyrics in common ('Close Watch' for example). I wouldn't call it 'bright' incidentally, it's mostly dirty and glitchy - and catchy too. I suppose the gospel version of 'If You Were Still Around' is pretty bright, but it's also beautiful that it makes both of the other studio versions utterly obsolete. The closing triumvirate of 'Close Watch', 'If You Were Still Around' and the previously unreleased 'Back To The End' justify the album on their own for me.