Will it ever happen?

[cs]

When will we get another Manic Street Preachers? Will it ever happen? Manics is getting old. Will the music scene ever see the day of another Manic Street Preachers? Or even a big guitar, bass and drums band for that matter...

[Frozendiva]

At some point, rock will return to the charts and replace the current sludge of artists.

The music industry has changed a lot - doubt many record companies can afford to develop new, promising talent, plus pay for things like albums and expensive tours. Streaming is the new way for people to find music. Artists have to do a lot of shows, promote their own stuff now. The political climate is right for some to make a statement but things are far too corporate now and many artists would rather get money for endorsement or other deals.

[sculptureofabloke]

I was going to come straight in here and say "Ah, they're my favourite band so course I'm gonna be biased, but I really can't imagine another band quite like them", but thinking about it a bit more, I'm not so sure. I mean, on the one hand, as much as anything, it was their circumstances that made them as a band. I don't think it's a coincidence that they started under a Conservative government, there was a lot to be angry about and there is again. Maybe more, I don't know. History repeats, and thinking about this reminded me of this that I saw the other day;



Image used by the Daily Mail, of all places. So maybe it is harder growing up now than it was in the 80s. If things carry on in the same direction it'll be harder still for the poor sods being born now. Not that it's as cut and dry as hard times make a good band, but it's certainly more character building and identifiable than privilege. If you're going to be basing your songs on your experiences and viewpoints, hard not to really. It's interesting that there are no bands going on about how great austerity is and how shit the NHS is.

I've often thought about it but I don't think the 20 year old Manics would've been signed today, I don't think the industry would have time for em, it's more cut-throat now than it was then. Don't know how Richey got all the contacts he did back then, but it's impressive before the internet really took off. When Richey was sending a tape to whoever, I'd guess we're talking a completely different volume to now when people can just attach a file to an email and send the same thing to fuck knows how many people if they want, at no expense. Which I suppose is a double edged sword in itself, yeah the internet gives you a platform today that the Manics never had starting out, but it's giving everyone a platform, be easy to get lost.

[Dac X Lee]

Have we seen a new Clash? As far as I know... Not.
Will we see new Manics? I don't think so.
But will we see another band as important as these two? Gimme the mic and join me with guitars! ^_-
Let's do this together! ♥★☆

[Son of Stopped]

I see the Manics as an aberration. They shouldn't of had any success but they did.
The gate has been welded shut to prevent that happening again!

[raven]

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

I was going to come straight in here and say "Ah, they're my favourite band so course I'm gonna be biased, but I really can't imagine another band quite like them", but thinking about it a bit more, I'm not so sure. I mean, on the one hand, as much as anything, it was their circumstances that made them as a band. I don't think it's a coincidence that they started under a Conservative government, there was a lot to be angry about and there is again. Maybe more, I don't know. History repeats, and thinking about this reminded me of this that I saw the other day;



Image used by the Daily Mail, of all places. So maybe it is harder growing up now than it was in the 80s. If things carry on in the same direction it'll be harder still for the poor sods being born now. Not that it's as cut and dry as hard times make a good band, but it's certainly more character building and identifiable than privilege. If you're going to be basing your songs on your experiences and viewpoints, hard not to really. It's interesting that there are no bands going on about how great austerity is and how shit the NHS is.

I've often thought about it but I don't think the 20 year old Manics would've been signed today, I don't think the industry would have time for em, it's more cut-throat now than it was then. Don't know how Richey got all the contacts he did back then, but it's impressive before the internet really took off. When Richey was sending a tape to whoever, I'd guess we're talking a completely different volume to now when people can just attach a file to an email and send the same thing to fuck knows how many people if they want, at no expense. Which I suppose is a double edged sword in itself, yeah the internet gives you a platform today that the Manics never had starting out, but it's giving everyone a platform, be easy to get lost.

Ah but I do believe the Manics made all these arguments at the start of their career and ever since.....as even back in the days of the '90s when bands were bands(!) there weren't many that were political/angry.....Oasis were maybe the most successful example of a working class band but they weren't political

It has become much more throwaway though its true and even though popsters and boybands continue to breakthrough even there it feels far more commercialised. It's not clear that anyone has a chance of making a career as the likes of Madonna, Michael Jackson....for example have done. But things can change....everyone's going back to buying vinyl now apparently so

Did you see the story about Annie Lennox recently? Maybe sums it up https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...ed-by-us-radio

PS I think we can tick the box next to 'Afraid of a nuclear winter?'

[Dac X Lee]

Originally Posted by raven

PS I think we can tick the box next to 'Afraid of a nuclear winter?'

I think so.
Greetings from S. Korea. ♥

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by raven

Ah but I do believe the Manics made all these arguments at the start of their career and ever since.....as even back in the days of the '90s when bands were bands(!) there weren't many that were political/angry.....Oasis were maybe the most successful example of a working class band but they weren't political

It has become much more throwaway though its true and even though popsters and boybands continue to breakthrough even there it feels far more commercialised. It's not clear that anyone has a chance of making a career as the likes of Madonna, Michael Jackson....for example have done. But things can change....everyone's going back to buying vinyl now apparently so

Did you see the story about Annie Lennox recently? Maybe sums it up https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...ed-by-us-radio

PS I think we can tick the box next to 'Afraid of a nuclear winter?'

I think it must be much harder now to start a successful band when you're working class. Course it's always been helpful to have the right background and connections, but I don't think it's ever really been so disadvantageous not to. Course the traveling around in a transit van and playing toilet venues is bound to be the same struggle now as it has been ever, but big breaks did happen. Label people did scout out these venues and people were listening to the radio rather than their iPods. 20 years ago in Hull where I'm from, off the top of my head there were 6 or 7 record shops in the city centre. Bit of an overlap between MVC and Music Zone, were they the same people? I dunno, whatever. Course vinyl sales have gone from strength to strength over the last decade or so, but looking at those charts doesn't look too great for the young whippersnappers. As of today, you've got The Beatles, The Smiths, Pink Floyd, Bob Marley, Radiohead, Oasis, Fleetwood Mac, David Bowie and Amy Winehouse in the top 20. Alright, there wasn't an official vinyl chart 20 or 30 years ago or whatever, but it was rare for releases as old as this lot to get back into the general charts. The overall chart doesn't bode that much better, but having looked now, apparently Martine McCutcheon is in the top 20 . Wasn't this, but I remember reading summat along these lines a couple of years ago; ‘OLD’ ALBUMS NOW OUTSELL NEW ALBUMS ON ITUNES IN AMERICA, and I think it's a big indication of how the industry has gone and how people consume music. On a personal level, it's a struggle to remember the last time I really discovered a band and bought their records new. Rarely buy anything at all now, mainly Manics stuff.

Eh the commercialisation stuff has always been a thing but before Pop Idol etc, the manufacturing process wasn't classed as entertainment. I did see that about Annie Lennox and I'm confused how it actually happened... How did this radio station person come across her music and do enough googling to find her contact details without finding out how famous she is?!

[raven]

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

I think it must be much harder now to start a successful band when you're working class. Course it's always been helpful to have the right background and connections, but I don't think it's ever really been so disadvantageous not to. Course the traveling around in a transit van and playing toilet venues is bound to be the same struggle now as it has been ever, but big breaks did happen. Label people did scout out these venues and people were listening to the radio rather than their iPods. 20 years ago in Hull where I'm from, off the top of my head there were 6 or 7 record shops in the city centre. Bit of an overlap between MVC and Music Zone, were they the same people? I dunno, whatever. Course vinyl sales have gone from strength to strength over the last decade or so, but looking at those charts doesn't look too great for the young whippersnappers. As of today, you've got The Beatles, The Smiths, Pink Floyd, Bob Marley, Radiohead, Oasis, Fleetwood Mac, David Bowie and Amy Winehouse in the top 20. Alright, there wasn't an official vinyl chart 20 or 30 years ago or whatever, but it was rare for releases as old as this lot to get back into the general charts. The overall chart doesn't bode that much better, but having looked now, apparently Martine McCutcheon is in the top 20 . Wasn't this, but I remember reading summat along these lines a couple of years ago; ‘OLD’ ALBUMS NOW OUTSELL NEW ALBUMS ON ITUNES IN AMERICA, and I think it's a big indication of how the industry has gone and how people consume music. On a personal level, it's a struggle to remember the last time I really discovered a band and bought their records new. Rarely buy anything at all now, mainly Manics stuff.

Eh the commercialisation stuff has always been a thing but before Pop Idol etc, the manufacturing process wasn't classed as entertainment. I did see that about Annie Lennox and I'm confused how it actually happened... How did this radio station person come across her music and do enough googling to find her contact details without finding out how famous she is?!

It no doubt is in part to how downloads have made it easier to market disposable/here today gone tomorrow type stuff(??) The Annie Lennox thing maybe sums it up, probably a young newbie set to hunt round the net(!), heard her voice, thought wow go get her go get before listening properly, doing a little research, thinking 'what is this nagging feeling about her name, hell her voice sounding familiar!'

But it's probably in part down to the reasons around why its getting harder for working class actors to come through....over the past 15/20 years the student grants have all gone and debt is the norm....most bands probably form in and around college/university; benefits and help with housing have been cut with sanctions and 'work' placements increasing, add to that smaller venues and studio spaces all being shut down; music and drama rarely featuring in schools in poorer neighbourhoods (if they ever did feature? I would have loved to have done drama. We got one lesson. One. Thanks to a supply teacher. Yeah I still remember that one lesson. And as for music we got about a term's worth and they involved 2 to a keyboard for half hour a week and it was mainly about how many Mickey Mouse weird noises you could get it to make. Or the other girl I got stuck with could make cos she never let me have a go. I know. Best days of your life. They're lying to you children)
Where's the space now for a working class band to form, rehearse, record.....if they can't quickly get the support of a major recording company backing them they're not going to last.....and it's such an uphill struggle to even get to the position of bringing yourself to their attention so.
It's never been easy but it does seem like it must feel near impossible now

There's always been talent shows like Pop Idol, X Factor....I know they're criticised for being overly commercial but they're nothing new....they just borrowed an old format and brought it back. And pop's always had its commercial side, I remember when (these were all fields) it was all the Stock, Aitken & Waterman factory....Kylie, Bananarama, Rick Astley, Sonja(!).....(Sorry about that, should've given you a warning, erase it from your brain, put on a Manics vinyl...better now??) Maybe the X Factor could be said to give working class kids a chance but it's not the same as providing space and time to form a band and play gigs, record, get a contract, build up a career is it. The biggest pop band ever ever were The Beatles, working class, could they happen today??......not that there's anything wrong with being posh and holding a guitar (could mention Joe Strummer!) but as with all across the arts you need that mix of voices, you need that variety and you need it open to and for everyone cos it's not just about playing it's about finding the bands that speak to you ain't it and seeing working class characters in settings that ring true - y'don't have to be a working class actor to do that....tis called acting aye... but if their are no working class voices anywhere how the feck will they know if they're getting it right....and where will be the role models for other working class kids?

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by raven

It no doubt is in part to how downloads have made it easier to market disposable/here today gone tomorrow type stuff(??) The Annie Lennox thing maybe sums it up, probably a young newbie set to hunt round the net(!), heard her voice, thought wow go get her go get before listening properly, doing a little research, thinking 'what is this nagging feeling about her name, hell her voice sounding familiar!'

They must've felt quite silly after realising that.. If they even remember they've done it, probably sending the same email out to loads of people eh. I still don't understand how it happened, surely if you've never heard of her and you think ooh this is good, you'll look for more...

Originally Posted by raven

But it's probably in part down to the reasons around why its getting harder for working class actors to come through....over the past 15/20 years the student grants have all gone and debt is the norm....most bands probably form in and around college/university; benefits and help with housing have been cut with sanctions and 'work' placements increasing, add to that smaller venues and studio spaces all being shut down; music and drama rarely featuring in schools in poorer neighbourhoods (if they ever did feature? I would have loved to have done drama. We got one lesson. One. Thanks to a supply teacher. Yeah I still remember that one lesson. And as for music we got about a term's worth and they involved 2 to a keyboard for half hour a week and it was mainly about how many Mickey Mouse weird noises you could get it to make. Or the other girl I got stuck with could make cos she never let me have a go. I know. Best days of your life. They're lying to you children)
Where's the space now for a working class band to form, rehearse, record.....if they can't quickly get the support of a major recording company backing them they're not going to last.....and it's such an uphill struggle to even get to the position of bringing yourself to their attention so.
It's never been easy but it does seem like it must feel near impossible now

Can't remember who it was but I've definitely read about bands starting out in the 80s basically thanks to New Deal, or whatever it was called then. Aye, agree with this lot really. At my school Music was an option for GCSE but I think only four or five people actually took it past year 9. Seems to be a lot of political contempt for the arts. Well, funding of them at least. Couple of years old and soz for the Torygraph, but this seems toe the line A critic's plea: stop all arts funding now. Tories are as oblivious of the fact that all the talent in the world doesn't matter if the opportunity to use it is closed off, as they are that all the incompetence in the world is no barrier to success when you're of the kind of privelege of Jeremy Hunt...

Do feel sorry for anyone struggling to keep a small independent venue affloat. Just had a quick look at live music licensing and looks quite complex... Course I understand the need for curfews and monitoring sound levels, but I don't really understand why it's something that needs to be paid for. According to the gov site, "You may be infringing copyright and could be sued for damages if you stage live music events in public without obtaining a licence". So if Manics turned up at my local pub and they didn't have a license, Sony could sue em. What an unscrupulous set up... Still, the more small venues that struggle the better, we need more luxury apartments eh?

Originally Posted by raven

There's always been talent shows like Pop Idol, X Factor....I know they're criticised for being overly commercial but they're nothing new....they just borrowed an old format and brought it back. And pop's always had its commercial side, I remember when (these were all fields) it was all the Stock, Aitken & Waterman factory....Kylie, Bananarama, Rick Astley, Sonja(!).....(Sorry about that, should've given you a warning, erase it from your brain, put on a Manics vinyl...better now??) Maybe the X Factor could be said to give working class kids a chance but it's not the same as providing space and time to form a band and play gigs, record, get a contract, build up a career is it. The biggest pop band ever ever were The Beatles, working class, could they happen today??......not that there's anything wrong with being posh and holding a guitar (could mention Joe Strummer!) but as with all across the arts you need that mix of voices, you need that variety and you need it open to and for everyone cos it's not just about playing it's about finding the bands that speak to you ain't it and seeing working class characters in settings that ring true - y'don't have to be a working class actor to do that....tis called acting aye... but if their are no working class voices anywhere how the feck will they know if they're getting it right....and where will be the role models for other working class kids?

Yeah, doubt The Beatles would've made it today somehow. Fair point about X Factor providing a space for working class kids, but even that is far too safe and sanitised for a young Manics. Do sometimes wonder how far established singers would've got on X Factor. Some of my favourite singers, you probably couldn't say are good singers in the classical sense but they're distinctive. Someone like Roger Waters, he just sounds like a maniac half the time but I love his voice and I think it suits his music very well. He'd probably get nowhere on X Factor anyway, they're not interested in distinctiveness beyond humiliation really.

I admit I am a bit of an inverted snob but I'm not so much that I think it's impossible for posh kids to make art that connects with working class kids. I hate the thing we've got going on so much today when people get so vitriolic about "champagne socialists" and "virtue signallers", as if giving a shit about anyone in different circumstances to you is such an alien concept. You can't truly give a shit about refugees unless you take a family into your own home, you're a hypocrite if you don't. So much bollocks logic out there, but personally I'm more interested in what people think and what makes them tick than how big their house is or what school they went to. Each to their own mind. But then again, when I get on this line of thought I always remember how pissed off I was at university having middle class people telling me what it's like to be working class. It was a bit Common People, ooh I've never met one of these before, I wonder what they're like. I've lost where I was now, soz, doing a bit of pottering around while I'm typing this bollocks.

Think the broad point I'm trying to make is I think it is possible for the arts to transcend social class. Going back to The Beatles and adding a Rolling Stones - you've got one band of northern working class lads who were clean cut and wholesome when they started out, majority of their songs being about love which just about anyone can relate to, rather than being a Working Class Hero or owt like that. Then you've got the southern posh boys, The Rolling Stones with their more rebellious image. Suppose going back to the manufacturing stuff, you can present any image you like. However authentic it is, is a different thing and I wonder how important that is to people.

[Porco]

There's lots of guitar-based bands still, they just aren't the dominant alternative to out-and-out pop music like they used to be.

I think there is a lot about the Manics that made them particularly unique and particularly of their time when they started and that can't happen again because very few of those things will ever happen again in order to form the context that the Manics began and flourished in.

Obviously every band is technically unique, but I am confident that we aren't going to get a punk-inspired band from Wales with an arm-slashing lyricist appearing on Saturday morning kids shows alongside a talking sheep puppet whilst giving interviews to Amiga Power and selling multiple CD single releases and discussing philosophers, politics and cultural icons in the same breath as what flavour crisps are best and turning down almost every commercial deal to sell their music off the back of, and wearing a balaclava on Top of the Pops... that time has passed. We might get bits and pieces of that, but not the whole thing.

[Bambi]

Dac X Lee, Porco, just want to say I fucking love you guys.

[Dac X Lee]

Originally Posted by Bambi

Dac X Lee, Porco, just want to say I fucking love you guys.

Awwww. *hugs* ♥

[Porco]

Originally Posted by Bambi

Dac X Lee, Porco, just want to say I fucking love you guys.

Right back at you Bambi!

*hums You Love Us*

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by Porco

There's lots of guitar-based bands still, they just aren't the dominant alternative to out-and-out pop music like they used to be.

I think there is a lot about the Manics that made them particularly unique and particularly of their time when they started and that can't happen again because very few of those things will ever happen again in order to form the context that the Manics began and flourished in.

Obviously every band is technically unique, but I am confident that we aren't going to get a punk-inspired band from Wales with an arm-slashing lyricist appearing on Saturday morning kids shows alongside a talking sheep puppet whilst giving interviews to Amiga Power and selling multiple CD single releases and discussing philosophers, politics and cultural icons in the same breath as what flavour crisps are best and turning down almost every commercial deal to sell their music off the back of, and wearing a balaclava on Top of the Pops... that time has passed. We might get bits and pieces of that, but not the whole thing.

When you put it like that, they really are quite weird sods aren't they? Love em.