James: his voice - Forever Delayed

wireobsessed · #1 18-07-2013, 21:46

Ok I've been thinking about this. All this stuff over the past 2 years about James and him not wanting to sing, other guest vocalists, songs totally sung by other people and I think there has got to be a bigger reason than the fact that James is fed up with his voice.

So, do you think there has been a real problem? Polyps, throat surgery, vocal chord problems? He seems fine with short performances like the acoustic gigs on the Lions tour but is he genuinely having to "save" his voice?

What do you think?

mar · #2 18-07-2013, 21:55

I choose to be in denial about this subject *covers eyes*

bachelorette · #3 18-07-2013, 22:05

Well, all those running gags about cancelled winter tour dates are based one the fact that James seems extremely prone to laryngitis. The bout he contracted in 2010 (Postcards tour) seemed to affect his voice for months. There may well be (irreversible) damage to his vocal chords due to singing technique (early years), alcohol abuse and chain-smoking.
However, I don't think the possible damage is too bad, given the fact that James in good health is still an amazing live singer.
I think it's probably more of a "psychological" issue rather than physical illness. Maybe he is frustrated with the inevitable effects of aging, it seems to be a big issue for the Manics in general.

Europa Gluten Free · #4 18-07-2013, 21:59

Even to the non-technical listener like myself I think I can hear a difference when listening back, for example, to the Everything Live video compared to recent stuff but I'm no vocal expert. Obviously a voice changes with age so maybe its the not the same as it was, I really don't know. But I do think there are genuine artistic reasons for guest vocalists and duets etc etc.

nozzer · #5 18-07-2013, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by proevpete

Even to the non-technical listener like myself I think I can hear a difference when listening back, for example, to the Everything Live video compared to recent stuff but I'm no vocal expert. Obviously a voice changes with age so maybe its the not the same as it was, I really don't know. But I do think there are genuine artistic reasons for guest vocalists and duets etc etc.

Just out of interest, do you think his voice is better now or then? Because this could be an interesting debate

Europa Gluten Free · #6 18-07-2013, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by nozzer

Just out of interest, do you think his voice is better now or then? Because this could be an interesting debate

I'm inclined to say that I think he sounds at his best in the Everything Live video but then I also think his voice hasn't changed that much over the years...

I've truly never questioned his voice ever or considered a possible decline. Jimbo just seems one of the most natural singers in the UK which I actually think is one of the Manics' greatest assets in their songwriting. He has such a range that they can write so many different types of songs in different keys and therefore almost never have a song that sounds the same.

bachelorette · #7 18-07-2013, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by proevpete

I've truly never questioned his voice ever or considered a possible decline. Jimbo just seems one of the most natural singers in the UK which I actually think is one of the Manics' greatest assets in their songwriting. He has such a range that they can write so many different types of songs in different keys and therefore almost never have a song that sounds the same.

James seems to struggle slightly more in the higher range, not massively but noticeable to a singer. That is a normal effect of aging and, given how much he smokes/smoked and drank the damage is astonishingly minimal. He seems prone to long-term laryngitis though which could lead to permanent damage.

nozzer · #8 18-07-2013, 22:00

I just think that the experience of working with Shirley Bassey in 2009 made him realise just how much he loves being a guitarist, and he how much he enjoys being able to relax and just play guitar (he said something along those lines in an interview around that time), which he can't really with the Manics. So i think he is just trying to incorporate some moments like that into the Manics.

Personally, i think if there really is a huge decline in his vocal involvement on these albums, it is THE worst thing the Manics could ever do, and would be one of the biggest tragedies in British music ever if he ever stopped singing! Such a unique voice, that i have never heard anything like. Best bit in Rewind The Film is when his massive voice enters, and sends the song to another level.

wireobsessed · #9 18-07-2013, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by nozzer

I just think that the experience of working with Shirley Bassey in 2009 made him realise just how much he loves being a guitarist, and he how much he enjoys being able to relax and just play guitar (he said something along those lines in an interview around that time), which he can't really with the Manics. So i think he is just trying to incorporate some moments like that into the Manics.

Personally, i think if there really is a huge decline in his vocal involvement on these albums, it is THE worst thing the Manics could ever do, and would be one of the biggest tragedies in British music ever if he ever stopped singing! Such a unique voice, that i have never heard anything like. Best bit in Rewind The Film is when his massive voice enters, and sends the song to another level.

I totally agree about his voice being unique and instantly recognisable. He has so many beautiful qualities to his voice and it really shows when he joins the RTF track. He makes it for me and the review in NME kind of says the same thing. I worry that there may have been something we don't know about and that may be the reason for trying to reduce his work load vocally.

Smiling#Girl · #10 18-07-2013, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by nozzer

I just think that the experience of working with Shirley Bassey in 2009 made him realise just how much he loves being a guitarist, and he how much he enjoys being able to relax and just play guitar (he said something along those lines in an interview around that time), which he can't really with the Manics. So i think he is just trying to incorporate some moments like that into the Manics.

Didn't he once say he would have preferred if Richey could sing because what he wanted to be was just a good guitarst?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nozzer

Personally, i think if there really is a huge decline in his vocal involvement on these albums, it is THE worst thing the Manics could ever do, and would be one of the biggest tragedies in British music ever if he ever stopped singing! Such a unique voice, that i have never heard anything like. Best bit in Rewind The Film is when his massive voice enters, and sends the song to another level.

100% agree.

hummingbird · #11 18-07-2013, 22:22

He knows what to do to look after his voice. If there was anything seriously wrong they would've stopped touring and certainly not planned a bunch of unnecessary gigs when they're meant to be taking a break.

I don't think he really meant he's bored of singing, just that he wanted to do something different and judging by RTF so far he gets a thumbs up from me !

FacelessSenseOfVoid · #12 18-07-2013, 22:28

38 songs on one night without many issues isn't cause for concern in my eyes.

As a "singer" myself, I can admit to the fact that JDB's songs are very hard to sing, yet his vocal range has shrunk over the years. Both of these are due to age and the smoking (mainly this), also the fact that singing very loudly at the top of your range isn't good for you.

For me, the biggest change to his voice happened between 1998 and 2001. Listen to his speaking voice between songs, there is quite a bit of difference. Considering that was 12/13 years ago, there would have inevitably been more changes to his voice since then.

I do miss old screamy James but for me JDB is at his best on songs like Cardiff Afterlife, Emily, Door To The River and Midnight Sun. I think RTF will have his best vocal performances for a very long time.

bachelorette · #13 18-07-2013, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessSenseOfVoid

38 songs on one night without many issues isn't cause for concern in my eyes.

As a "singer" myself, I can admit to the fact that JDB's songs are very hard to sing, yet his vocal range has shrunk over the years. Both of these are due to age and the smoking (mainly this), also the fact that singing very loudly at the top of your range isn't good for you.

Totally agree, that's exactly what I was trying to say.

UEF · #14 08-08-2013, 11:17

38 songs with a jacuzzi and a bit of massage in the middle though. Bruce Springsteen doesn't get that!

Donkey · #15 18-07-2013, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessSenseOfVoid

For me, the biggest change to his voice happened between 1998 and 2001. Listen to his speaking voice between songs, there is quite a bit of difference. Considering that was 12/13 years ago, there would have inevitably been more changes to his voice since then.

Well, I think that the change happened a bit earlier - dunno when but his voice has been fallen down a bit. It's very noticeable when you listen to his speaking voice. Early EMG interviews he's still high tenor speaker, later he's a low tenor - nearly baritone speaker. This is what happens with aging (Elton John, Freddie too a bit) and with smoking (such a stupid habit), his voice is not that raw and powerful as it used to be. GATS and HB eras are the best IMHO.
But we're talking about many years and it wouldn't be possible to be consistent.

On the other hand What I miss is some kind of exploring attitude. He's just worse and worse (still good of course), but I would prefer him to be more "different" than worse.