The "Know Your Enemy" Appreciation Thread

[tzb]

So... you like all of it. Right?

Not meaning to be rude, but I think we all kind of take that as read!

[The Gutless Wonder]

Oh, and I forgot Pedestal as well. Really like that one!

I'm not annoying you I hope Stu!

[tzb]

Not at all, I think you're just wearing out your keyboard unnecessarily.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Originally Posted by tzb

Not at all, I think you're just wearing out your keyboard unnecessarily.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Back to wearing out my keyboard.......................................

I just feel KYE got some unfair critisicm when it first came out. Good to know alot of people love it anyway.

[Slideling]

2001 is when I discovered the Manics, and I can't help but love KYE.

I made a list of my favourite songs once, but the note got thrown

[UEF]

Stuff like SATT makes KYE look amazing.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Originally Posted by UEF

Stuff like SATT makes KYE look amazing.

Theiy're both amazing! *ducks as Stu hurls a cushion in my direction!*

[Bartek Wyre]

Originally Posted by UEF

Stuff like SATT makes KYE look amazing.

Yeah, I've always been quite critical of KYE but lately I realized that I like it a lot better than SATT and LB. The last Manics album, up to JFPL, to have any balls to it.

[MSPlover]

KYE is brilliant album. I really don't get it why many people hate it.

[nocultureicons]

KYE-hate shouldn't be allowed in here, it is the 'appreciation' thread after all.

[Phil C]

I've loved KYE since it first came out.

Lyrically and musically I think it has to be considered along with 'This Is My Truth' as it represents the other side of the band. Musically 'Truth' is commercial and beautiful, while 'KYE' is ugly and aggressive. Lyrically, 'Truth' is mostly an introspective album about how things feel to Nick, while 'KYE' is aimed mostly *outward* - more overtly political, lashing out at targets.

I find it interesting that some people talk a lot about getting rid of 'Freedom of Speech', 'Robeson', 'Royal' and replacing them with 'Just A Kid', 'Groundhog Days' and 'Masking Tape', because they're basically ripping out most of the political content and replacing them with fairly bland lyrics about misery. This reflects a split between the fans between those who like the Manics as a political band, and those who like them to write songs that reflect how *they* feel - i.e. lonely, depressive - so they can empathise with them better and feel better when they hear them.

Personally I prefer the political side. I can't agree with the 'Freedom Of Speech' bashing that's been going on - even the reviews that hated the album largely had to admit that that song is great. Lyrically it's punchy and with a wicked sense of fun. Musically it's razor-sharp. Equally 'Robeson' works really well for me, although initially it felt like the 'ballad' to reasure 'Truth' fans. But the lyric is political in a more subtle way, and I love the gospel elements in the song.

A couple of things I don't understand. One, why are Manics fans so determined that their albums should have glossy production? 'Lifeblood' should have glossy production. 'KYE' should be rough as hell (in fact 'GT' should have been produced like that). And why should albums only have one feel throughout? 'London Calling' changes track-by-track, why shouldn't 'KYE'?

The great songs on the album are 'Found That Soul', 'Intraveous Agnostic', 'Let Robeson Sing', 'Dead Martyrs', 'His Last Painting', 'Epicentre' and 'Freedom Of Speech'. The very good ones are 'Ocean Spray', 'The Year Purification', 'Miss Europa Disco Dancer', 'My Guernica', 'The Canvalescent', 'Royal Correspondent' and 'Baby Elian'. 'So Why So Sad' is the only one I sometimes dislike (although sometimes I find myself wanting to listen to it). 'Wattsville Blues' could have been done better but I still love the chorus.

B-sides wise I think 'Ballad' is brilliant and should have been on instead of 'Wattsville'. 'Locust' has a weak chorus but a great solo. 'Little Trolls' is brilliant and funny and 'Fear Of Motion' also has a very good solo. The rest I'm less bothered about.

Oh, and I *love* the cover art. It's like being handed a parcel that someone's taken ages decorating. It's messy, aggressive, and like the album the more you look into it the more you get out of it.

[tzb]

Originally Posted by Phil C

I find it interesting that some people talk a lot about getting rid of 'Freedom of Speech', 'Robeson', 'Royal' and replacing them with 'Just A Kid', 'Groundhog Days' and 'Masking Tape', because they're basically ripping out most of the political content and replacing them with fairly bland lyrics about misery. This reflects a split between the fans between those who like the Manics as a political band, and those who like them to write songs that reflect how *they* feel - i.e. lonely, depressive - so they can empathise with them better and feel better when they hear them.

Not for me it doesn't. I love their political content elsewhere, I just find it laughably weak on the album. Robeson and Royal might have been overtly political 30 years ago but by 2001 those horses had somewhat bolted. Plus those songs are, for me, musically abysmal.

As for Groundhog Days being lyrically bland where Robeson isn't... hmm. You want to talk about bland, any of the three album tracks you mentioned fits the bill beautifully in terms of music.

[Flint]

I'll definitely go for 'fairly bland misery' over 'awkward and cringey politics toss'. As much as I love KYE musically and am even willing to defend the lyrics of a right mess like Intravenous Agnostic, that album is a very good example why Wire needs to step away from writing anything political.

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by tzb

Not for me it doesn't. I love their political content elsewhere, I just find it laughably weak on the album. Robeson and Royal might have been overtly political 30 years ago but by 2001 those horses had somewhat bolted.

That's a bit like saying 'Tolerate' is out of date because it's about a conflict from the first half of the 20th century.

How many Manics fans hadn't heard of Robeson before the song? Me, for one. And funnily enough it says a lot about the USA today - how much has really changed?

And last time I looked there is still a royal family and still journalists assigned to follow them and make them look important. How is that out of date - especially when lines like 'build a fountain/wash away the poor' bring it right up to date in attacking the plan to waste public money on a fountain memorial to Princess Diana? (one of my favourite couplets on the album, actually).

'RC' is certainly one of the weaker moments musically, but I'd rather the Manics actually went for something a bit different (i.e. a folk-gospel track on 'Robeson') than just bland indie rock filler like 'Further Away' or 'Patsy'. I suppose it helps if you like gospel-influenced music as well with 'Robeson', which I do.

Originally Posted by tzb

As for Groundhog Days being lyrically bland where Robeson isn't... hmm.

Ok, let's compare;

'I've got the sunset ovalling
And it made me fight again
But tomorrow came too quick
And I went back to bed again'

with

'Went to Cuba to meet Castro
Never got past sleepy Moscow
A giant man with a heavenly voice
MK Ultra turned you paranoid'

Now...which of those sounds like it took about 30 seconds to write and which seems to have had some thought put into it? Which lyric is about nothing and which is actually about something?

And that's not actually 'Robeson''s best verse, I just decided to choose the second verse of each at random.