Carfest South: The Beginning of the End?

[UEF]

Without that fresh intake, that vampiric fresh intake of new blood, you are dead as a band. It’s Guilfest, here we come. You fuck about pretending… interpreting your old albums in an acoustic style. It’s pissing your life away really, happy but unchallenged.”

Nicky Wire, 2010

Now something tells me that if Guilfest came knocking in 2017 they'd be up there.

[Abstract Unknown Girl]

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

I've been obsessed with the band over half my life now, seen em 60 odd times, got about 600 recordings in me collection across different formats, but never been the type to record at gigs or add setlists anywhere, that's for people with a slightly different obsession to mine. Maybe this forum is a bit of a reflection like that too, it's nowhere near as busy as it was when I joined, maybe a lot of people have found other obsessions.

Originally Posted by darkanddivine

Age comes to us all, alas!

I'd wager that people do have obsessions, but those obsessions are probably small human beings they created! Even for hardcore fans of particularly nuts bands like MSP move on aren't immune to the sands of time.

Forums/message boards in general are dying a death though, so it's not just FD that's quiet these days. This is the only forum I still frequent and I never see new ones springing up for my other interests, when 5-10 years ago there would have been loads. Social media has totally changed online life. Fan forums/message boards and LiveJournal used to be where fandom groups I was interested in congregated, now it's all on Tumblr and Facebook. I know there are quite a few Facebook groups for Manics fans, but I personally don't bother with any of them. It's a shame really, but that's the way it goes.

So this place will always be quieter now no matter what the Manics do and that's got nothing to do with the band at all; it's just the way the internet has changed. Fans do move on, but there are plenty of people on social media who still love the Manics and want to talk about them; they just do it elsewhere. This place used to provide an entire evening's entertainment, now those were the days

[UEF]

Yeah, I'd say the Facebook side of things is pretty lively. Although it's mostly people responding to news, rather than starting threads and asking questions.

Bring back usenet!

[darkanddivine]

This is weird: here's my comment on that exact topic on another thread.

To avoid a derail though, I think while the technological side of music changing has had some impact, I think it's given a lot more credit than it's worth. The music industry plays it massively safe by putting on heritage acts all the time. It's a bit like getting Fast & The Furious 17 because they know it "does a job."

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

It's not even about harking back to a time when I was younger, but I do miss the feeling of excitement that I got by discovering bands, however I discovered em. I crave that feeling, but haven't had it for a long time, so I suppose the next best is to listen to stuff that reminds me of that feeling - hopefully fuck all to do with who I was then and who I am now, maybe a bit to do with how the industry has changed.. Don't want to rule owt out, but we've all got our comfort zones eh.

I have a theory about this. If you think about it, as a pup, you've basically not heard anything. Especially back when the entirety of recorded music wasn't available on tap. But once you've spun your millionth record, it's hard to get excited in the same way. I bang on about Stray from the Path (amazing band btw) but it wasn't love at first listen by any stretch of the imagination. It took a while for the magic to come to the surface. But when you're at a show and you get lost in the tunes, the feeling is pretty much the same as it ever was.

Also music reminds people of stuff, so if it's an old song that reminds you of good times then you're going to want to listen to it. If it just reminds you of paying your 17th mortgage installment off, it's a bit harder to get into that zone.

Originally Posted by UEF

Nicky Wire, 2010

Now something tells me that if Guilfest came knocking in 2017 they'd be up there.

I'm gonna go against Wire on that. Acoustic re-works can be shit. But pretending you're 17 when you're 85 can sound shit too. It's a delicate balance and one that almost every band struggles with. I feel that it's often better if a band that plan ahead and try and remain as dignified as they can, otherwise they are bound to be compared (unfairly) against their younger, fired up selves.

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by Abstract Unknown Girl

Forums/message boards in general are dying a death though, so it's not just FD that's quiet these days. This is the only forum I still frequent and I never see new ones springing up for my other interests, when 5-10 years ago there would have been loads. Social media has totally changed online life. Fan forums/message boards and LiveJournal used to be where fandom groups I was interested in congregated, now it's all on Tumblr and Facebook. I know there are quite a few Facebook groups for Manics fans, but I personally don't bother with any of them. It's a shame really, but that's the way it goes.

So this place will always be quieter now no matter what the Manics do and that's got nothing to do with the band at all; it's just the way the internet has changed. Fans do move on, but there are plenty of people on social media who still love the Manics and want to talk about them; they just do it elsewhere. This place used to provide an entire evening's entertainment, now those were the days

I follow a few of the Facebook groups but rarely contribute owt. Wonder if part of it is to do with our age and the age of the band, don't expect em to have picked up many new fans this decade really. I've dabbled on a few forums, but probably twice as much on here as all other forums I've been on combined. Found it hard to get going on forums in general, took a while to find any friends through here and I wonder if that's partly to do with people having their established friendships and not really having the time for anyone else. Not that I'm against meeting new people, just struggle to find time for my favourites as it is.

Can't be arsed to look, but wonder if there are forums dotted about for oh, I dunno, Ed Sheeran, that are as busy if not busier than this place was at it's busiest. But yeah, you're right, things have changed. Or moved, at least. Haven't got a tumblr meself.

Originally Posted by darkanddivine

I have a theory about this. If you think about it, as a pup, you've basically not heard anything. Especially back when the entirety of recorded music wasn't available on tap. But once you've spun your millionth record, it's hard to get excited in the same way. I bang on about Stray from the Path (amazing band btw) but it wasn't love at first listen by any stretch of the imagination. It took a while for the magic to come to the surface. But when you're at a show and you get lost in the tunes, the feeling is pretty much the same as it ever was.

Also music reminds people of stuff, so if it's an old song that reminds you of good times then you're going to want to listen to it. If it just reminds you of paying your 17th mortgage installment off, it's a bit harder to get into that zone.

Yeah, I see what you mean there. Heh, I've even tried to like bands - new to me, not necessarily new to the world. It does feel more of an effort in ways, didn't have to do anywhere near as much sifting for starters. Just seemed so natural before, something would just click, or you'd stumble upon something and it'd hit you and you'd love it. I really miss it!

[raven]

Originally Posted by darkanddivine

I have a theory about this. If you think about it, as a pup, you've basically not heard anything. Especially back when the entirety of recorded music wasn't available on tap. But once you've spun your millionth record, it's hard to get excited in the same way. I bang on about Stray from the Path (amazing band btw) but it wasn't love at first listen by any stretch of the imagination. It took a while for the magic to come to the surface. But when you're at a show and you get lost in the tunes, the feeling is pretty much the same as it ever was.

Also music reminds people of stuff, so if it's an old song that reminds you of good times then you're going to want to listen to it. If it just reminds you of paying your 17th mortgage installment off, it's a bit harder to get into that zone.

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

Yeah, I see what you mean there. Heh, I've even tried to like bands - new to me, not necessarily new to the world. It does feel more of an effort in ways, didn't have to do anywhere near as much sifting for starters. Just seemed so natural before, something would just click, or you'd stumble upon something and it'd hit you and you'd love it. I really miss it!

When you were yooooung. To go all Killers for a minute there. I think a lot of it is probably down to no longer being (as) young and being (more) jaded it's hard to find that same enthusiasm and maybe it's in part cos you were looking more for what connected and really clicked with you amongst bands that were all the same age-ish and era and maybe when you're young for some anyway the music you like defines you in a way and makes you feel you belong or that you belong in not belonging! I think maybe you lose some of that as you get older.
I've stuck with some of the same bands for years....i can't think of the last 'new' band I really fell for.....maybe Bright Eyes....though that's been some time now. There are lots of 'new' songs or songs at least new to me I come across and fall in love with but I'm not so bothered about finding The Band ....I have them already, the Manics, naturally,....and The Killers closely following and I still love to hear whatever Marilyn Manson keeps coming up with.....and wonder where the Marilyn's of today are....I was going to say the Kurt's as well but that didn't end so well....in fact many of the singers and members of bands I've loved have become the dearly departed....don't know what that says about me.

Not quite connected but proving I'm not completely jaded I still love to hunt for books I haven't read before, my enthusiasm there hasn't faded at all

Maybe try a completely new genre...classical; jazz; hip hop....

[darkanddivine]

Originally Posted by raven

When you were yooooung. To go all Killers for a minute there. I think a lot of it is probably down to no longer being (as) young and being (more) jaded it's hard to find that same enthusiasm and maybe it's in part cos you were looking more for what connected and really clicked with you amongst bands that were all the same age-ish and era and maybe when you're young for some anyway the music you like defines you in a way and makes you feel you belong or that you belong in not belonging! I think maybe you lose some of that as you get older.
I've stuck with some of the same bands for years....i can't think of the last 'new' band I really fell for.....maybe Bright Eyes....though that's been some time now. There are lots of 'new' songs or songs at least new to me I come across and fall in love with but I'm not so bothered about finding The Band ....I have them already, the Manics, naturally,....and The Killers closely following and I still love to hear whatever Marilyn Manson keeps coming up with.....and wonder where the Marilyn's of today are....I was going to say the Kurt's as well but that didn't end so well....in fact many of the singers and members of bands I've loved have become the dearly departed....don't know what that says about me.

Not quite connected but proving I'm not completely jaded I still love to hunt for books I haven't read before, my enthusiasm there hasn't faded at all

Maybe try a completely new genre...classical; jazz; hip hop....

Really interesting points all round there.

I'd agree that as you age - books and films do have a certain timelessness to them in some ways. I never look at a 20 year old film and think "my god that was donkeys years ago." But music does seem ultra prone to the sands of time.

Maybe that's because it's literally associated with the sexiness (for want of a better word) of youth. Noel Gallagher said something in that interview he did with Nicky where he said that the 90's was nuts because everyone in the arenas was the same age as the bands. And there is something in that I think.

I also agree on genres. Growing up I listened to indie, rock and mostly mainstream stuff. I still get the kicks these days because I've ended up going to extremes. I like a lot of metal, some weird techno style stuff and also just good old pop music too. As you get older you often lose interest in fashion, or keeping up, and that is probably also reflected in your musical tastes.

[Automatik]

Some very interesting points in this thread.

Originally Posted by Abstract Unknown Girl

Forums/message boards in general are dying a death though, so it's not just FD that's quiet these days... Social media has totally changed online life.

For the worse, I fear. Everything is so pulverised now - much more ephemeral and breathless. Twitter in particular, if I may apportion blame mercilessly to a single platform, is acutely responsible for destroying attention spans and the very ability to discuss and debate topics in a fair-minded way. 'Q. How do you get someone to call you an arsehole on Twitter? A. Post something.'

I'm not on Facebook, but I much, much prefer discussing the band here to anywhere else.

Originally Posted by IntlDebris

I definitely miss the pre-internet era when it comes to discovering music. There was a lot more mystery back then. When I'd get into an artist, generally all I'd know about them was what CDs were in my local indie (which was surprisingly well stocked), but sometimes I'd go to a city and find a bunch of albums in Virgin or HMV that I never even knew existed. Things like that were really, really exciting.

I miss the pre-internet era for many things (life lived at its natural pace most of all, see above), and the theoretical thrill of the bargain bin is a great memory but at the same time I must remind myself how terribly restricted it all was. The chances of discovering anything really exciting in the heaps of chart cast-offs was minimal, and there were no independent record shops where I grew up. We also had very little money so I was extremely careful about spending my savings or any money I got as a present on albums - especially not new albums, which were obscenely over-priced (£16.99 in 1995!).

Fair enough, there was the odd discovery down the flea market on in a car boot sale for 10p but in all honestly the diversity was not great. So the internet era is, I must concede, much better for exposing one to new music (and to recommendations from others!).

I used to read music reviews and then hope the library or someone I knew had the album or the band in question. Luckily the library where I grew up was staffed by someone who had very cool music tastes - of course, I couldn't rip CDs back then (or even tape from CD), but I at least got to hear stuff I otherwise wouldn't have.

Originally Posted by Dac X Lee

Being a '90s kid and a '00s teenager, I've got a taste of pretty much both the pre-internet as well as the early-ish internet era music, and I think early internet was fun too. As soon as we got ADSL, I'd spend a good amount of time on SoulSeek discovering music from all over the world, through chats, and suggestions, it was cute. Of course, I'd buy some CDs and cassettes too, if they were available in my country.

1980s kid and 1990s teenager here.

The difficulty of downloading music via the internet due to low internet speeds - which for many of us wasn't solved until, say, 2005 or later - precluded much finding of new music there. I did use the internet to find out about the existence of rare tracks, b-sides, remixes et al from bands that I already did like, though.

So, yeah, a very mixed bag, now and then.

[raven]

Originally Posted by Automatik

Some very interesting points in this thread.



For the worse, I fear. Everything is so pulverised now - much more ephemeral and breathless. Twitter in particular, if I may apportion blame mercilessly to a single platform, is acutely responsible for destroying attention spans and the very ability to discuss and debate topics in a fair-minded way. 'Q. How do you get someone to call you an arsehole on Twitter? A. Post something.'

I'm not on Facebook, but I much, much prefer discussing the band here to anywhere else.



I miss the pre-internet era for many things (life lived at its natural pace most of all, see above), and the theoretical thrill of the bargain bin is a great memory but at the same time I must remind myself how terribly restricted it all was. The chances of discovering anything really exciting in the heaps of chart cast-offs was minimal, and there were no independent record shops where I grew up. We also had very little money so I was extremely careful about spending my savings or any money I got as a present on albums - especially not new albums, which were obscenely over-priced (£16.99 in 1995!).

Fair enough, there was the odd discovery down the flea market on in a car boot sale for 10p but in all honestly the diversity was not great. So the internet era is, I must concede, much better for exposing one to new music (and to recommendations from others!).

I used to read music reviews and then hope the library or someone I knew had the album or the band in question. Luckily the library where I grew up was staffed by someone who had very cool music tastes - of course, I couldn't rip CDs back then (or even tape from CD), but I at least got to hear stuff I otherwise wouldn't have.



1980s kid and 1990s teenager here.

The difficulty of downloading music via the internet due to low internet speeds - which for many of us wasn't solved until, say, 2005 or later - precluded much finding of new music there. I did use the internet to find out about the existence of rare tracks, b-sides, remixes et al from bands that I already did like, though.

So, yeah, a very mixed bag, now and then.

An 80s kid 90s teenager...you must also remember the cassette tape Trying to hit stop before the DJ yammered all over the end of a song.
And swapping mix tapes with friends to try and complete that B-sides and odds n ends collection.

I came across a lot in the library too - Generation Terrorists was borrowed from there after hearing them on Radio 1, think it was the Friday night rock show...played metal and fit in Motorcycle Emptiness. Remember discovering Warrior Soul through the library too. Bought quite a few of the Manics albums on tape afore those new fangled CDs came out, ha. I still prefer to own a CD for a band like the Manics rather than a download...something to hold

[sherlock]

Originally Posted by Automatik

We also had very little money so I was extremely careful about spending my savings or any money I got as a present on albums - especially not new albums, which were obscenely over-priced (£16.99 in 1995!).

£16.99!! Where were you buying your CD's from? Imported from Mars?! For some completely anal reason I tucked the receipts from all my CD purchases under the back cover and a quick run through 8 of them from 1995 and 1996 showed that the cheapest was Elastica's debut at £9.99 and the most expensive was Cast's 'All Change' at £12.99. Most were £11.99 from HMV. But, yes, I completely agree. Those prices 20 years ago were ridiculous! But then we didn't know any different ...

[IntlDebris]

I remember back catalogue stuff was sometimes more expensive than new releases, I'd often pay £13.99 and £14.99 for an album a few years old, and occasionally £17.99 for a double album. But yeah, new releases were normally £11.99 around here, whether it was Woolies, Smiths, Asda or my local indie. I suppose I was lucky that I could go into town and shop around three different places for CDs, given that I live in a medium-sized midlands town with no real culture.

[Abstract Unknown Girl]

I seem to remember Virgin Megastores sold back catalogue albums for either really cheap or ridiculously expensive prices; I definitely saw some around the £16.99 mark in the past! Our Price was the same too. I remember hunting out the Manics’ old albums in various music shops like those that have long since gone. My hometown of Wakefield doesn’t even have a HMV anymore let alone any of the other places I used to buy my CD’s from.

[hummingbird]

Tower records was the most expensive. I remember looking to get GT in the mid nineties and it was £18.99. Think I ended up paying 15 somewhere else

[Automatik]

Originally Posted by raven

An 80s kid 90s teenager...you must also remember the cassette tape Trying to hit stop before the DJ yammered all over the end of a song.
And swapping mix tapes with friends to try and complete that B-sides and odds n ends collection.

I do indeed. Wearing out the cassette (and thereby losing the only copy you had of a song) or it getting chewed up were frequent teenage tragedies. Mix tapes were great though - I still call CDs I make for friends 'mix tapes'.

Taping off the radio too - I hardly ever listen to the radio now. The last time was the first play of those new Stone Roses tracks.

Originally Posted by raven

I came across a lot in the library too - Generation Terrorists was borrowed from there after hearing them on Radio 1, think it was the Friday night rock show...played metal and fit in Motorcycle Emptiness. Remember discovering Warrior Soul through the library too. Bought quite a few of the Manics albums on tape afore those new fangled CDs came out, ha. I still prefer to own a CD for a band like the Manics rather than a download...something to hold

Yes, I had my first experience with the Manics via the local library (I can't recall if THB or EMG was my first full album of theirs). Went out and bought all their albums after listening to them - actually put myself in debt doing so.

I still love going down to the record shop here (they still exist!) and buying the new Manics album the day it's released. I used to love trotting down to the shop and buying the singles too, to have the cover art and quotes and sense of completeness.

Originally Posted by sherlock

£16.99!! Where were you buying your CD's from? Imported from Mars?!

Nearly. I don't want to give too much (any) information about myself, but I can PM you where I grew up and I can assure you it might as well have been Mars. CDs could be bought in Woolworths or, latterly, Tesco. That was it. We didn't have a first-hand record shop.

I moved.

Originally Posted by sherlock

For some completely anal reason I tucked the receipts from all my CD purchases under the back cover and a quick run through 8 of them from 1995 and 1996 showed that the cheapest was Elastica's debut at £9.99 and the most expensive was Cast's 'All Change' at £12.99. Most were £11.99 from HMV. But, yes, I completely agree. Those prices 20 years ago were ridiculous! But then we didn't know any different ...

Yes, you could get some new albums for £9.99 (loss leaders), and most new 'chart' releases were £12.99 if I recall, but anything by e.g. Oasis, Blur, the Manics or any other high-profile band was upwards of £15.99 by 1996 where I grew up.

Originally Posted by IntlDebris

I remember back catalogue stuff was sometimes more expensive than new releases, I'd often pay £13.99 and £14.99 for an album a few years old, and occasionally £17.99 for a double album. But yeah, new releases were normally £11.99 around here, whether it was Woolies, Smiths, Asda or my local indie. I suppose I was lucky that I could go into town and shop around three different places for CDs, given that I live in a medium-sized midlands town with no real culture.

I definitely experienced that new albums were cheaper elsewhere growing up. If I could hold out I would wait until the record shop (actually an indoor market stall) had them for £5, but that would usually be a couple of years after their release.

Originally Posted by Abstract Unknown Girl

I seem to remember Virgin Megastores sold back catalogue albums for either really cheap or ridiculously expensive prices; I definitely saw some around the £16.99 mark in the past! Our Price was the same too. I remember hunting out the Manics’ old albums in various music shops like those that have long since gone. My hometown of Wakefield doesn’t even have a HMV anymore let alone any of the other places I used to buy my CD’s from.

I remember some very extortionate back catalogue prices in larger British cities as well when I had to replace some of my Manics CDs in the early 2000s.

Originally Posted by hummingbird

Tower records was the most expensive. I remember looking to get GT in the mid nineties and it was £18.99. Think I ended up paying 15 somewhere else

I think I paid £18.99 when I replaced some of my Manics CDs (see above). That would have been in HMV and there was only one copy of GATS. It was strange because Forever Delayed had been reduced repeatedly and was in the same rack at about £4.99 (maybe £6.99, I can't remember exactly). That was the same year it was released, I think.

Never saw Lipstick Traces reduced, oddly enough.

Anyway, I suppose things are better now when you consider the proportion of one's income one would have to fork out for these albums, and when we have better, easier access to a wider selection of music via the internet, but I definitely miss the slow-motion thrill of walking into a record shop on the day of release and getting the latest single - not knowing what the cover looked like and having to find it, then knowing when you got home you had four new songs (b-sides) to gorge on. Would they be classics? Would they be woeful? What would the liner quote be????

[IntlDebris]

I still use shops whenever possible - I'm back in my old hometown at the minute, so it's either when I make it over to Nottingham or Leicester or somewhere, or a big release from a supermarket in town.

I really miss CD singles. I know we get deluxe edition albums now, which have the effective b-sides on them, but it was the spreading out of the tracks that I enjoyed. Every few weeks another band I'd like put out a new single and there'd be a handful of new songs to enjoy. Having an album extended beyond its natural runtime to get into all at once sort of has the opposite effect, makes it feel overwhelming.