"All virgins are liars honey" - Forever Delayed

Jennie Wren · #1 30-01-2006, 12:51

What does this lyrical quote mean to you? What do you think Richey meant?

bornagirl76 · #2 30-01-2006, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by estuary_girl

What does this lyrical quote mean to you? What do you think Richey meant?

I think he meant that no one is really pure. And I don't like it.

Dancing Kirby · #3 30-01-2006, 14:06

Maybe it's to do with when women falsely tell men that 'it' is their first time to make it feel like more of a conquest for the male. Though this wouldn't necessarily work in the case of prostitutes, which the song is about.

Prostitute: This is my first time.

Punter: Really, how long have you been on the streets?

Prostitute: Three years

Punter: I see...

On the other hand, it could be the male claiming virginity, which is more likely.

Guernica · #4 30-01-2006, 14:10

Hmmm. I've always assumed that he was quoting or paraphrasing the pimp - the "Everything's for sale" guy... ???

Jennie Wren · #5 30-01-2006, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bornagirl76

I think he meant that no one is really pure. And I don't like it.

No I don't like it either, because not everyone is corrupted or out for themselves. I guess that illustrates a mentally ill person

But I know I sometimes feel very cynical about the human environment "there's nothing wrong with planet Earth it's just the [certain - / people (delete as applicable)] in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernica

Hmmm. I've always assumed that he was quoting or paraphrasing the pimp - the "Everything's for sale" guy... ???

Yeah that would make sense too! Never actually considered that before

Quote:

Originally Posted by another invented username

Maybe it's to do with when women falsely tell men that 'it' is their first time to make it feel like more of a conquest for the male. Though this wouldn't necessarily work in the case of prostitutes, which the song is about.

Men seriously don't do that do they? *worries*

I guess there could be a gender reversal cos not all males are guilty!

bornagirl76 · #6 30-01-2006, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernica

Hmmm. I've always assumed that he was quoting or paraphrasing the pimp - the "Everything's for sale" guy... ???

Well yeah, that too - as in, the whole song is using prostitution as a metaphor for Richey's sense of feeling used. So, taken literally and in context, it refers to pimps falsely selling their girls "as new". Metaphorically, no-one is pure and "as new".
If ya get me

Yes is my favourite Manics song and I don't mind the line in the context of the song. But taken out of context it's horribly misanthropic and just makes me think, "Speak for yourself, Mr Ed!"

Manic Matt · #7 30-01-2006, 15:39

I always thought it meant that prostitutes think virgins lie about it, because a prostitute is envious of a virgin. Did that make any sense?

#8 30-01-2006, 15:42

I've always taken it to mean that no one is really pure, like what bornagirl76 said.

Guernica · #9 30-01-2006, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bornagirl76

Well yeah, that too - as in, the whole song is using prostitution as a metaphor for Richey's sense of feeling used. So, taken literally and in context, it refers to pimps falsely selling their girls "as new". Metaphorically, no-one is pure and "as new".
If ya get me

Yes is my favourite Manics song and I don't mind the line in the context of the song. But taken out of context it's horribly misanthropic and just makes me think, "Speak for yourself, Mr Ed!"

I totally agree w/ your first paragraph - not sure about the second b/c it having a misanthropic element honestly never crossed my mind. I've always given Richey HUGE points for the rock star=prostitute analogy b/c it's SO spot-on and nobody had ever really come out and said it before, at least not with that brutal directness.

Dancing Kirby · #10 30-01-2006, 17:40

Actually, I've changed my theory slightly. Virgins are liars because they always deny that they are virgins or evade the issue. The only people who openly tell others they are virgins aren't virgins. Oh, and then we get to the few who do admit to being virgins but say they are virgins through choice. Clearly another filthy lie.

Generally speaking.

bornagirl76 · #11 30-01-2006, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernica

I totally agree w/ your first paragraph - not sure about the second b/c it having a misanthropic element honestly never crossed my mind. I've always given Richey HUGE points for the rock star=prostitute analogy b/c it's SO spot-on and nobody had ever really come out and said it before, at least not with that brutal directness.

Oh I agree about the song and the analogy overall, definitely. It's just that one particular line out of context - "all virgins are liars". Outside the twisted worlds of prostitution and celebrity (and politics?

) it just doesn't stand true.

He sure got his point across though

Quote:

Originally Posted by another invented username

Actually, I've changed my theory slightly. Virgins are liars because they always deny that they are virgins or evade the issue.

Umm...that doesn't really work in relation to 'Yes', because in prostitution virginity=cash and 'purity' is paid for.

Jennie Wren · #12 30-01-2006, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bornagirl76

Umm...that doesn't really work in relation to 'Yes', because in prostitution virginity=cash and 'purity' is paid for.

Basically we live in a world of fake materialism and Richey .. would you say he loved to be a martyr in every respect of the word? I think he could only fully express himself through the lyrics in his songs and collages

Radiomanic · #13 30-01-2006, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by estuary_girl

What does this lyrical quote mean to you? What do you think Richey meant?

Whatever the book he stole it from mean't, as with most stuff on the holy bible.

#14 30-01-2006, 22:30

I have always taken it quite literally and simply to mean that any prostitute claiming that it's her 'first time' is lying, just to get more money from the client..which would fit in with the 'dumb cunt's same dumb questions' line. Also the title of the song being 'yes', this makes sense, cos it starts with the two questions, 'for sale?' and 'virgin?' Basically, as with the song as a whole, its saying that people will say yes to anything you ask to get what they want from you. I think.

#15 30-01-2006, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by anhedonia

I have always taken it quite literally and simply to mean that any prostitute claiming that it's her 'first time' is lying, just to get more money from the client..which would fit in with the 'dumb cunt's same dumb questions' line. Also the title of the song being 'yes', this makes sense, cos it starts with the two questions, 'for sale?' and 'virgin?' Basically, as with the song as a whole, its saying that people will say yes to anything you ask to get what they want from you. I think.

but do prostitutes actually claim it's their first time? who'd believe them?

i've never taken it to mean "virgin" literally, just as, "anyone who says they're pure and untouched/corrupted is a liar".