Will it ever happen?

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by raven

It no doubt is in part to how downloads have made it easier to market disposable/here today gone tomorrow type stuff(??) The Annie Lennox thing maybe sums it up, probably a young newbie set to hunt round the net(!), heard her voice, thought wow go get her go get before listening properly, doing a little research, thinking 'what is this nagging feeling about her name, hell her voice sounding familiar!'

They must've felt quite silly after realising that.. If they even remember they've done it, probably sending the same email out to loads of people eh. I still don't understand how it happened, surely if you've never heard of her and you think ooh this is good, you'll look for more...

Originally Posted by raven

But it's probably in part down to the reasons around why its getting harder for working class actors to come through....over the past 15/20 years the student grants have all gone and debt is the norm....most bands probably form in and around college/university; benefits and help with housing have been cut with sanctions and 'work' placements increasing, add to that smaller venues and studio spaces all being shut down; music and drama rarely featuring in schools in poorer neighbourhoods (if they ever did feature? I would have loved to have done drama. We got one lesson. One. Thanks to a supply teacher. Yeah I still remember that one lesson. And as for music we got about a term's worth and they involved 2 to a keyboard for half hour a week and it was mainly about how many Mickey Mouse weird noises you could get it to make. Or the other girl I got stuck with could make cos she never let me have a go. I know. Best days of your life. They're lying to you children)
Where's the space now for a working class band to form, rehearse, record.....if they can't quickly get the support of a major recording company backing them they're not going to last.....and it's such an uphill struggle to even get to the position of bringing yourself to their attention so.
It's never been easy but it does seem like it must feel near impossible now

Can't remember who it was but I've definitely read about bands starting out in the 80s basically thanks to New Deal, or whatever it was called then. Aye, agree with this lot really. At my school Music was an option for GCSE but I think only four or five people actually took it past year 9. Seems to be a lot of political contempt for the arts. Well, funding of them at least. Couple of years old and soz for the Torygraph, but this seems toe the line A critic's plea: stop all arts funding now. Tories are as oblivious of the fact that all the talent in the world doesn't matter if the opportunity to use it is closed off, as they are that all the incompetence in the world is no barrier to success when you're of the kind of privelege of Jeremy Hunt...

Do feel sorry for anyone struggling to keep a small independent venue affloat. Just had a quick look at live music licensing and looks quite complex... Course I understand the need for curfews and monitoring sound levels, but I don't really understand why it's something that needs to be paid for. According to the gov site, "You may be infringing copyright and could be sued for damages if you stage live music events in public without obtaining a licence". So if Manics turned up at my local pub and they didn't have a license, Sony could sue em. What an unscrupulous set up... Still, the more small venues that struggle the better, we need more luxury apartments eh?

Originally Posted by raven

There's always been talent shows like Pop Idol, X Factor....I know they're criticised for being overly commercial but they're nothing new....they just borrowed an old format and brought it back. And pop's always had its commercial side, I remember when (these were all fields) it was all the Stock, Aitken & Waterman factory....Kylie, Bananarama, Rick Astley, Sonja(!).....(Sorry about that, should've given you a warning, erase it from your brain, put on a Manics vinyl...better now??) Maybe the X Factor could be said to give working class kids a chance but it's not the same as providing space and time to form a band and play gigs, record, get a contract, build up a career is it. The biggest pop band ever ever were The Beatles, working class, could they happen today??......not that there's anything wrong with being posh and holding a guitar (could mention Joe Strummer!) but as with all across the arts you need that mix of voices, you need that variety and you need it open to and for everyone cos it's not just about playing it's about finding the bands that speak to you ain't it and seeing working class characters in settings that ring true - y'don't have to be a working class actor to do that....tis called acting aye... but if their are no working class voices anywhere how the feck will they know if they're getting it right....and where will be the role models for other working class kids?

Yeah, doubt The Beatles would've made it today somehow. Fair point about X Factor providing a space for working class kids, but even that is far too safe and sanitised for a young Manics. Do sometimes wonder how far established singers would've got on X Factor. Some of my favourite singers, you probably couldn't say are good singers in the classical sense but they're distinctive. Someone like Roger Waters, he just sounds like a maniac half the time but I love his voice and I think it suits his music very well. He'd probably get nowhere on X Factor anyway, they're not interested in distinctiveness beyond humiliation really.

I admit I am a bit of an inverted snob but I'm not so much that I think it's impossible for posh kids to make art that connects with working class kids. I hate the thing we've got going on so much today when people get so vitriolic about "champagne socialists" and "virtue signallers", as if giving a shit about anyone in different circumstances to you is such an alien concept. You can't truly give a shit about refugees unless you take a family into your own home, you're a hypocrite if you don't. So much bollocks logic out there, but personally I'm more interested in what people think and what makes them tick than how big their house is or what school they went to. Each to their own mind. But then again, when I get on this line of thought I always remember how pissed off I was at university having middle class people telling me what it's like to be working class. It was a bit Common People, ooh I've never met one of these before, I wonder what they're like. I've lost where I was now, soz, doing a bit of pottering around while I'm typing this bollocks.

Think the broad point I'm trying to make is I think it is possible for the arts to transcend social class. Going back to The Beatles and adding a Rolling Stones - you've got one band of northern working class lads who were clean cut and wholesome when they started out, majority of their songs being about love which just about anyone can relate to, rather than being a Working Class Hero or owt like that. Then you've got the southern posh boys, The Rolling Stones with their more rebellious image. Suppose going back to the manufacturing stuff, you can present any image you like. However authentic it is, is a different thing and I wonder how important that is to people.