The Manics and John Cale

[Phil C]

I've recently been really getting into John Cale's solo albums and I've noticed a couple of connections with the Manics, some suggest influence and others are almost certainly just co-incidences.

There are the obvious ones - James playing two songs with Cale in the documentary film about him, Cale then appearing on 'Auto-Intoxication', I think Nick once said they would like Cale to produce a Manics album, and the Manics have covered Cale's 'The Endless Plain Of Fortune' on the 'National Treasures' vinyl as well as James covering it solo. I believe Cale curated the Nico tribute concert that James covered 'Janitor Of Lunacy' at as well.

On top of this I was listening to Cale's 'Fear' album, and heard his superb 'Ship Of Fools' for the first time, and it struck me that the track could well have been an influence on the 'music box' element of 'Builder Of Routines' (judge for yourselves - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGPC-ZKrrtY )

And I was just reading an interview with Cale which said his 2005 track 'Hey Ray' was about Ray Johnson, who was the subject of the Manics' b-side 'Locust Valley'.

I'm still working my way through Cale's back-catalogue and I'm far from an expert in his stuff, so I was wondering if anyone else here has noticed any other connections/influences?

[Bathtub]

I don't know how much I see a connection musically, but I have always found Cale a fascinating figure, how he went from a small town in Wales to one of the most influential bands in modern history.

Fear and Slow Dazzle are phenomenal records.

[TheCasual]

Never really got into Cale. But he's a fantastic musician and can play anything.

I love the Valet Underground and Transfer by Lou Reed.

[( )]

Cale produced The Stooges and the Manics like Iggy pop.

[Scarecrow]

I like John Cale. I found his discography difficult to tackle though; there are so many obscure soundtracks that are very difficult to find, and some of his strongest albums are out of print.

Music for a New Society is very much my favourite, very morose. Honi Soit, Helen of Troy, Fear, and moments of other '70s and '80s albums are excellent. That 83/84 period when he was coked up and having paranoid breakdowns all of the time produced some excellent live recordings, even if they did lead to the only album of his sadly never released on vinyl (Caribbean Sunset).

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by NasalScarecrow

I like John Cale. I found his discography difficult to tackle though; there are so many obscure soundtracks that are very difficult to find, and some of his strongest albums are out of print.

Music for a New Society is very much my favourite, very morose. Honi Soit, Helen of Troy, Fear, and moments of other '70s and '80s albums are excellent. That 83/84 period when he was coked up and having paranoid breakdowns all of the time produced some excellent live recordings, even if they did lead to the only album of his sadly never released on vinyl (Caribbean Sunset).

Not true - I have 'Caribbean Sunset' on vinyl. I found it in Reckless Records in Soho.

I'm working through the Cale discography - I've just downloaded 'Artificial Intelligence' from iTunes and bought his '5 Tracks' E.P. from ebay. The former is a dated synth-rock album (in fact, coming at the end of the 1980s it would have sounded dated upon release), although not without good moments ('Dying On The Vine' in particular), and I've not listened to latter yet, but I've read that Cale regards it as the release on which he got closest to what he wanted, so looking forward to hearing it later this evening.

Because I love a list, here's the Cale albums/E.P.s I have;

Vintage Violence (1970)
The Academy In Peril (1972)
Paris 1919 (1973)
Fear (1974)
Slow Dazzle (1975)
Helen Of Troy (1975)
Animal Justice E.P. (1977) (vinyl)
Sabotage (1979) (vinyl)
Caribbean Sunset (1984) (vinyl)
Artificial Intelligence (1988)
Walking On Locusts (1996)
5 Tracks (2003)
HoboSapiens (2003)
Black Acetate (2005)
Shifty Adventures In Nookie Wood (2012) (vinyl)

[TurnItUp]

Apparently 'Music for New Society' is to be re-released next year. This is a useful site for Cale info:

http://werksman.blogspot.nl/search/label/John%20Cale

Rob

[Routine Builder]

Nice!

[TurnItUp]

This is well worth getting hold of, hopefully at a lower price!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fragments-Ra...a+rainy+season

Rob

[Phil C]

Originally Posted by TurnItUp

Apparently 'Music for New Society' is to be re-released next year. This is a useful site for Cale info:

http://werksman.blogspot.nl/search/label/John%20Cale

Rob

Great news and thanks for pointing me to this site!

[Routine Builder]

It's a great site, probably the only Cale fansite worth the name.

[Routine Builder]

Here's the full site...

http://werksman.home.xs4all.nl/cale/

[TurnItUp]

Originally Posted by Phil C

Great news and thanks for pointing me to this site!

Cheers. Roundhouse gig on 3.2.16 on sale - seated only so be quick if interested. Worth keeping a look out in case other dated added.

[Phil C]

You've probably all seen but Cale has been added to both All Tomorrow's Parties events, and I have a ticket to the day he's playing Manchester! Can't wait. I missed out on Iggy Pop tickets but I'll still be seeing one absolute legend.

I also found his 'Honi Soit' album on vinyl last month. Not his absolute best but some good stuff, especially 'Riverbank'.

I got both 'Music For A New Society' and 'M:Fans'. I have to say that the latter is brilliant, and easily stands up as a work in its own right rather than just as a companion to the original version. I love the re-workings of 'Close Watch' and the second version of 'If You Were Still Around', and the 'new' track 'Back To The End'.

[Routine Builder]

Can't say I particularly like what I've heard of M:FANS. The original was so desolate and cold whereas M:FANS sounds bright and noisy....