Songs that need to be dropped from live sets?

[Bobafettish]

YSTS and Tolerate as 2 of the most recognisable manics tracks would be ridiculous to drop and it's almost selfish of 'hardcore fans' to want them to, just because they're not a GATS era b-side or some other curio

Add those two to ADFL, YLAINE, ME, YLU, MJ (because they dont like dropping it...) and perhaps Faster, and you've got a list of untouchable tracks that every diehard or casual fan would know, want and expect to hear.
I'd drop MJ though

Everything else however is completely interchangeable.

[tzb]

I just don't agree YSTS is in that league, even amongst casual fans. They know it and it's upbeat, sure. But how many would go home disappointed if they played all those songs but not YSTS? Not many, I'm guessing. It's a B or C division track, but it gets played pretty much every gig as though it's one of their very best.

Unless they start playing for 3 hours every night, they need to mix up the 7 (!) "unmissable" tracks identified there. That's almost half the setlist, every night of every tour.

[bachelorette]

Originally Posted by tzb

Unless they start playing for 3 hours every night, they need to mix up the 7 (!) "unmissable" tracks identified there. That's almost half the setlist, every night of every tour.

I agree completely, if there are too many "signature tracks" (The Clash had ONE) the Manics will fossilize themselves. What about 4 signature tracks and two rarities?
Or is because Wire struggles with the music and James with lyrics? Do they need to heavily rehearse everything so that they struggle to mix things?

[yanushka]

Originally Posted by tzb

I just don't agree YSTS is in that league, even amongst casual fans. They know it and it's upbeat, sure. But how many would go home disappointed if they played all those songs but not YSTS? Not many, I'm guessing. It's a B or C division track, but it gets played pretty much every gig as though it's one of their very best.
.

True dat. I'd love to hear it, but I wouldn't be that fussed if they'd leave it out.

[sofarsideways]

In my opinion the untouchables are ADFL, Motorcycle Emptiness, IYTTYCWBN, You Love Us, You Stole The Sun... (agreeing with those who say this gets too good a reaction to drop, it's always a highlight for me just because it's always so much FUN), Motown Junk and Faster (though in actuality they drop Faster from the set worryingly frequently). YLAINE I don't think belongs in that group but I can understand keeping it. Everything else I reckon is fair game.

The Everlasting can be tear-jerkingly powerful live, but I think it's been overplayed to the point of losing that power. People roll their eyes, sigh, go to bar, which is a real shame because it is such a beautiful song. It could benefit from being given a rest for awhile.

Agree that everything from Postcards can be dropped. Trot out It's Not War or the title track every now and then, fine, but they shouldn't become staples, no way.

I made a post on my Facebook a week or so ago about Justin Currie and setlists, which obviously came back to the Manics because I am me. Justin (of Del Amitri... fame? Oh burn) has a career span comparable to the Manics', and he basically he plays most of the songs expected plus whatever he feels like on the night and anything that gets yelled out. He knows his entire back catalogue and just goes with it. (He also never ever plays 'Roll To Me', which was a pretty big hit and is one of Del Amitri's most well-known songs, because he hates it, and no-one seems to miss it or yell out for it, oddly.) I know that's a lot harder for a band to do as opposed to a solo artist, and rather impossible in a bigger venue, but that's not the point.

I know the Manics want to please, and honestly I don't mind the repetitive sets that much, a Manics gig is a Manics gig and I will love whatever they play. But they could so easily strike more of a balance, and it would be good for them and for the fanbase - because really, who IS the set-up intended to please actually pleasing? It really wouldn't kill them to switch things up a bit, even with all dem STONE COLD HITZ. We all completely lose our shit when we get thrown one lesser-played album track per tour. WE ARE STARVED.

[darkanddivine]

Originally Posted by bachelorette

Do they need to heavily rehearse everything so that they struggle to mix things?

Pretty much this is the impression I get. Also, bear in mind that the Manics literally hate half their catalogue the instant it is committed to record and you have a recipe for stale sets. Look at Muse, who used to make the sets massively diverse, even when they didn't have the songs to do it. Once you go past 6 or so albums it is very hard (if you have popular singles) to make a set that engages the hardcore fan. Now they play virtually exactly the same set every night.

I think the key though to the MSP setlist netherworld though, is that at the time that they make a record, they don't seem able to drag anything other than the singles through to the next tour. If album tracks from pretty much any album post KYE had been played on a regular basis, they could become live classics. Unfortunately, because they don't, when they bring something cool like 1985 out of the bag, no-one in the audience has a clue except a handfull down the front. Then the band practically have to apologise for playing it, despite it being crushingly awesome.

And that's what leads me to believe what is actually at play here. The vast majority of bands choose their setlist themselves, based on a mix of what they want to play (which can of course include curios,) some hits and then a smattering of songs aimed at the hardcore fan (maybe "the old stuff" or whatever.)

The issue MSP always have I believe, is that they let what they think the general audience might want, write the setlist for them.

[Futurologist]

They must never drop You Love Us. Shouty pointy is my favourite part of the evening.

[sofarsideways]

Originally Posted by darkanddivine

The issue MSP always have I believe, is that they let what they think the general audience might want, write the setlist for them.

This, and their grasp of what their general audience now is seems to be off, which means they are tailoring a setlist to something that doesn't really exist, in effect.

[AK47]

I didn't create this for a moan. It's just something that genuinely bothered me a lot.The band just have so many amazing songs that would translate brilliantly live such as:

My Guernica
Peeled Apples
Further Away
Born To End
Methadone Pretty (acoustic)
1985
VSEC
Nobody Loved You
PCP

[manic pilgrim]

Originally Posted by franny

Suicide Is Painless, so boring I want to cry, I swear they add another verse every time I see them.

I agree, I wouldn't mind if they drop it. Can I have three for one? Drop Suicide is Painless and give me This is Yestreday, No Surface All Feeling and Black Dog on My Shoulder.

And Marlon JD as encore.

[sofarsideways]

I really do understand why they don't want to play anything from JFPL (or much from THB for that matter), but oh, it hurts. The JFPL tour was interesting setlist-wise, I loved hearing the whole album. I just wish I could have made it to more than one date on that tour, I think we all guessed at the time that would pretty much be the only time we'd hear those songs. Sigh.

[yanushka]

Originally Posted by sofarsideways

I really do understand why they don't want to play anything from JFPL (or much from THB for that matter), but oh, it hurts. The JFPL tour was interesting setlist-wise, I loved hearing the whole album. I just wish I could have made it to more than one date on that tour, I think we all guessed at the time that would pretty much be the only time we'd hear those songs. Sigh.

I feel your pain, sister.

[sofarsideways]

Originally Posted by yanushka

I feel your pain, sister.

*fistbump* I'm very, very glad I got to go to one date, of course, but yeah. The album/tour happened when I was at the absolute lowest point of my life as well, so I get doubly sadfaced about it because I feel like I couldn't fully appreciate it the one time I did get to experience JFPL live. Wah wah wah.

[tzb]

Originally Posted by darkanddivine

I think the key though to the MSP setlist netherworld though, is that at the time that they make a record, they don't seem able to drag anything other than the singles through to the next tour. If album tracks from pretty much any album post KYE had been played on a regular basis, they could become live classics. Unfortunately, because they don't, when they bring something cool like 1985 out of the bag, no-one in the audience has a clue except a handfull down the front. Then the band practically have to apologise for playing it, despite it being crushingly awesome.

That's a really good point - they never develop the confidence or groove they get with the singles on album tracks, so when they do play them they feel kind of awkward, and the arrangements are rarely as good. You definitely get the feeling they want to be a singles band and only begrudgingly play album tracks, even thought they're kinda not.

[sofarsideways]

Originally Posted by tzb

That's a really good point - they never develop the confidence or groove they get with the singles on album tracks, so when they do play them they feel kind of awkward, and the arrangements are rarely as good. You definitely get the feeling they want to be a singles band and only begrudgingly play album tracks, even thought they're kinda not.

So true. And at the same time, many of the singles they play all the time which are actually really good songs end up sounding tired and receiving a tired reception just because they've been played so much, and so the band are too used to them and so are the audience.