Know Your Enemy 20 scheduled for 2021 release

[everlasting]

So I just watched the video for the 'new' song. I like it and it's great to see footage of the guys recording at the time; they really should have put together a documentary for this, but oh well.

[FacelessSenseOfVoid]

I'm starting to get excited about listening to this remixed reissue now. In particular I'm really interested in hearing what they've done to DTTR. We keep hearing about a strings-less version of the song but I'm curious about how that would actually sound because in the chorus of the song there's no guitar at all, in fact it's bass, drums and the orchestral instruments. Was there actually some guitar in the chorus that was mixed out originally? Or does strings-less actually just mean a reduction in how thick the string sounds are??

[Son of Stopped]

Well including tonight, that's 11 nights before its release.
Give or take a couple of days more for postal strikes. The final stretch!

[gabo86]

Ok so, after reading all of you for some months in this thread, I have something to say.
I simply don't understand tracklist changes.

SATT 10th hasn't Underdogs and has Welcome To The Dead Zone. In 2007, anyway, they were happy about Underdogs (otherwise they would not put it in the official album) and less happy about Welcome To The Dead Zone (sometimes, as Flint explains in his RYM guide, they used as b-sides songs that did not fit well in the album, but Welcome To The Dead Zone would fit it, so they probably thought that it was worse thand Underdogs). Then, why include it?
TIMTTMY 20th has Prologue To History instead of Nobody Loved You. Ok, Prologue To History is considered one of their best B-sides (also by me), but it's rockier than the rest of the album, as Nobody Loved You is too. But the question is: why remove a track and put another one it? It's like a betrayal of the original album.
In my opinion, you can remaster an album and then put a second, and even third, cd of demos/remixes/live versions, but the tracklist should be untouched (like in the THB 10th and 20th, EMG 10th and 20th, GT 20th and GATS 27th).

Than, Know Your Enemy 21th. The idea is even messier than the previous ones: we all know that the album was intended as a couple of albums (like RTF and Futurology), but I don't think I'll consider these two albums as the original ones. For me, KYE is KYE, full stop. I'm happy for the new songs, and I'll put them in the B-sides collection (after the 10 KYE tracks and before the 9 FD-LT tracks), but they cannot be part of KYE as I listen to it. I'm curious about the new mixes though, but I think that if they mixed it as it has been mixed, there has to be a reason. I hate ret-cons, I hate "no, I changed my mind, if I did today I would do like this". Ok, but you did it 21 years ago and you did it like that, so why change it?
I don't know, I'll just see. But the tracklist issue is very important to me.

[Tim]

Studies in paralysis sounds pretty solid to me, if not as immediate or memorable as rosebud i guess it sounds more of that era. James sounds great on this as well and is again making me pine for his voice back then.

[Bartek Wyre]

So, any info on KYE 20 being available on Spotify or other streaming platforms ahead of the physical release?

[Routine Builder]

Nope, assume it will be release day.

[LA ex]

Is it too optimistic to hope that they'll announce live dates on album release day?

[Marat Sar]

Originally Posted by gabo86

SATT 10th hasn't Underdogs and has Welcome To The Dead Zone. In 2007, anyway, they were happy about Underdogs (otherwise they would not put it in the official album) and less happy about Welcome To The Dead Zone (sometimes, as Flint explains in his RYM guide, they used as b-sides songs that did not fit well in the album, but Welcome To The Dead Zone would fit it, so they probably thought that it was worse thand Underdogs). Then, why include it?
TIMTTMY 20th has Prologue To History instead of Nobody Loved You. Ok, Prologue To History is considered one of their best B-sides (also by me), but it's rockier than the rest of the album, as Nobody Loved You is too. But the question is: why remove a track and put another one it? It's like a betrayal of the original album.
In my opinion, you can remaster an album and then put a second, and even third, cd of demos/remixes/live versions, but the tracklist should be untouched (like in the THB 10th and 20th, EMG 10th and 20th, GT 20th and GATS 27th).

Than, Know Your Enemy 21th. The idea is even messier than the previous ones: we all know that the album was intended as a couple of albums (like RTF and Futurology), but I don't think I'll consider these two albums as the original ones. For me, KYE is KYE, full stop. I'm happy for the new songs, and I'll put them in the B-sides collection (after the 10 KYE tracks and before the 9 FD-LT tracks), but they cannot be part of KYE as I listen to it. I'm curious about the new mixes though, but I think that if they mixed it as it has been mixed, there has to be a reason. I hate ret-cons, I hate "no, I changed my mind, if I did today I would do like this". Ok, but you did it 21 years ago and you did it like that, so why change it?
I don't know, I'll just see. But the tracklist issue is very important to me.

Oh! Oh! I'll happily bite

Dead Zone on SATT was ill-fitting, that track just does not have a start that fits well anywhere, nor did it fit there. Useless change.

Prologue to History on TIMTTMY was even more annoying, as I had to do audacity engineering to get NLY back.

Neither takes any time -- and minimal thought -- to implement, and doesn't add to the album. (Other than an interesting glimpse into how the band views the era, which is something). It also distracts from what I wanted -- just remasters please.

What they're doing with KYE is different. The entire album has been remixed. This follows a recent and very cool trend in rock music. Consider the 2017/18 stereo remixes of Sgt Peppers / White Album, which had the eerie effect of giving the Beatles a completely modern (and impeccable) wide field mix. I enjoy these over the cramped 4 and 8 track "bounced" sixties mixes any day -- especially Sgt Peppers. And especially on headphones. A vast majority of Beatles fans agree it was at least a welcome and insightful addition. Then there's the XX Anniversary remix of Muse's Origin of Symmetry, which the band claim is the ultimate version of that album. Origin, despite strong tunes, had a crushed sound on release which made it a pity to listen to. Most (me included) agree that the new mixes are superior to the originals, much wider and better architectured. This rerelease also adds an extra track (Futurism, previously a b-side) and shuffles the running order of the second half of the album, successfully. Another example would be the French band Indochine remixing all their singles from this millennium, so they fit into a non stop barrage of muscular awesomeness on "Singles 2001-2021". (The original mixes leave much to be desired).

Would you rather have all these three albums just remastered? A remaster wouldn't add anything to the seven million times remastered White Album, nor would it improve, for example, KYE, which has a decent master already. I don't see anything wrong with bands and record labels starting to put real effort into these rereleases, not just a remaster, which literally anyone can do. (I can walk into a friend's mastering studio and remaster KYE today, from a CD rip, it wouldn't even be that expensive.)

It's a testament to how much work they've put into this release, that it's taken an extra year to complete. The additions, resequencing, reconceptualization -- it's the most ambitious of these modern rereleases yet. With a totally changed running order, new titles for the two resulting albums, two entirely new songs (one of which is single-worthy), plus five new tracks on the album, plus everything has a new mix with added elements / elements taken away -- it's just a lot of work. None of which take anything from the original. You can still just put it on. The master is great, the sequencing is what it is (not a lot of people here would say it's an immutable masterpiece of a running order, like say THB).

And even if the new running order and mixes suck, it will still be an incredibly interesting listen.

The only arguments I can see against Door to the River / Solidarity are

1) Their time would be better spent on making new music. Sure, but they just released a pretty damn strong album that went nr 1 in the charts.

2) The KYE era isn't strong enough to put all this effort in / the KYE concept goes against reworking. Most people think KYE is fascinating, JDB sounded amazing, and there was a grat atmosphere. And the KYE concept -- their Sandinista! -- lends itself perfectly for just such a reworking.

Actually, you know what -- I wish the 2017 Sgt Pepper remix went further. I wish Macca sat down and put Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane back into the tracklist, where they belong, and were originally intended to be -- before the label cashed them in as singles. Sgt Pepper would be vastly improved by Strawberry Fields in the first half and Penny Lane in the second. I've always found it underwhelming and short on hits, honestly; Strawberry Fields especially encapsulates the spirit of the album perhaps stronger than anything that was on it, save A Day In The Life Of.

Same goes for Masses Against the Classes and KYE. The Cuba-flag single that went nr 1 is not on the Cuba album. Of course you can't just shove it on there, since it sounds way different from the wiry demoish mixes -- hence the remix of the entire thing.

P.S. Sorry I go on these endless tangents guys I spend days listening to music, have nowhere else to write these thoughts down -- and am sooooo excited for this stuff.

[Vancouver]

Totally agree with your thoughts!

[polar_bear]

Totally onboard with your thinking.

I too love the new Beatles mixes, am very excited for Revolver as I find some of the songs a bit... errr... flat? Likewise OoS XX was a breath of fresh air to the album that I didn't know it needed.

I'm very excited by this release. The only downside is I'm not going to get a chance to listen to it until next week. Unless it's in the car with my kids fighting in the background

[Routine Builder]

Originally Posted by polar_bear

I'm very excited by this release. The only downside is I'm not going to get a chance to listen to it until next week. Unless it's in the car with my kids fighting in the background

It's not an unheard of idea (listen to the outro):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R8rbvXHD5xQ

[Lee]

Originally Posted by LA ex

Is it too optimistic to hope that they'll announce live dates on album release day?

Would love it but it’s not happening is it

[Donkey]

Originally Posted by Marat Sar

Oh! Oh! I'll happily bite

Dead Zone on SATT was ill-fitting, that track just does not have a start that fits well anywhere, nor did it fit there. Useless change.

Prologue to History on TIMTTMY was even more annoying, as I had to do audacity engineering to get NLY back.

Neither takes any time -- and minimal thought -- to implement, and doesn't add to the album. (Other than an interesting glimpse into how the band views the era, which is something). It also distracts from what I wanted -- just remasters please.

What they're doing with KYE is different. The entire album has been remixed. This follows a recent and very cool trend in rock music. Consider the 2017/18 stereo remixes of Sgt Peppers / White Album, which had the eerie effect of giving the Beatles a completely modern (and impeccable) wide field mix. I enjoy these over the cramped 4 and 8 track "bounced" sixties mixes any day -- especially Sgt Peppers. And especially on headphones. A vast majority of Beatles fans agree it was at least a welcome and insightful addition. Then there's the XX Anniversary remix of Muse's Origin of Symmetry, which the band claim is the ultimate version of that album. Origin, despite strong tunes, had a crushed sound on release which made it a pity to listen to. Most (me included) agree that the new mixes are superior to the originals, much wider and better architectured. This rerelease also adds an extra track (Futurism, previously a b-side) and shuffles the running order of the second half of the album, successfully. Another example would be the French band Indochine remixing all their singles from this millennium, so they fit into a non stop barrage of muscular awesomeness on "Singles 2001-2021". (The original mixes leave much to be desired).

Would you rather have all these three albums just remastered? A remaster wouldn't add anything to the seven million times remastered White Album, nor would it improve, for example, KYE, which has a decent master already. I don't see anything wrong with bands and record labels starting to put real effort into these rereleases, not just a remaster, which literally anyone can do. (I can walk into a friend's mastering studio and remaster KYE today, from a CD rip, it wouldn't even be that expensive.)

It's a testament to how much work they've put into this release, that it's taken an extra year to complete. The additions, resequencing, reconceptualization -- it's the most ambitious of these modern rereleases yet. With a totally changed running order, new titles for the two resulting albums, two entirely new songs (one of which is single-worthy), plus five new tracks on the album, plus everything has a new mix with added elements / elements taken away -- it's just a lot of work. None of which take anything from the original. You can still just put it on. The master is great, the sequencing is what it is (not a lot of people here would say it's an immutable masterpiece of a running order, like say THB).

And even if the new running order and mixes suck, it will still be an incredibly interesting listen.

The only arguments I can see against Door to the River / Solidarity are

1) Their time would be better spent on making new music. Sure, but they just released a pretty damn strong album that went nr 1 in the charts.

2) The KYE era isn't strong enough to put all this effort in / the KYE concept goes against reworking. Most people think KYE is fascinating, JDB sounded amazing, and there was a grat atmosphere. And the KYE concept -- their Sandinista! -- lends itself perfectly for just such a reworking.

Actually, you know what -- I wish the 2017 Sgt Pepper remix went further. I wish Macca sat down and put Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane back into the tracklist, where they belong, and were originally intended to be -- before the label cashed them in as singles. Sgt Pepper would be vastly improved by Strawberry Fields in the first half and Penny Lane in the second. I've always found it underwhelming and short on hits, honestly; Strawberry Fields especially encapsulates the spirit of the album perhaps stronger than anything that was on it, save A Day In The Life Of.

Same goes for Masses Against the Classes and KYE. The Cuba-flag single that went nr 1 is not on the Cuba album. Of course you can't just shove it on there, since it sounds way different from the wiry demoish mixes -- hence the remix of the entire thing.

P.S. Sorry I go on these endless tangents guys I spend days listening to music, have nowhere else to write these thoughts down -- and am sooooo excited for this stuff.

Interesting discussion guys.

I already wrote it: Manics were already behind the good days when writing KYE, so yes, it's strange to make such an effort. Only hardcore fans care.
I totally agree with the opinion that tracklists shiuldn't change. Those changes were mistakes. And McCartney shouldn't touch anything Beatles related. Those things were released decades ago and the half of the band...and I must say the better half of the band when I want to be honest...is dead. If someone wants to listen to Strawberry Fields in the middle of Sgt. Pepper, he is free to do that.

But of course there are exceptions and KYE could be ImHO such an exception, although I am not sure about the new mixes. For me it would be almost fine if they only released the then considered tracklists of the albums. But sure the other songs have a different sound, so I would say let's see what the result is.

Now the most important bit: I don't consider the current trend in rock music cool. It's actually ridiculous. The trend I found cool was to play and release great new music like in 90s or 60s. What we see now is simply a lack of good new music, lack of interest in new music. The rerelasing etc. has always been there, because the industry likes to earn money, but it has never been as prominent as now. The focus is too strong.

[manic marios]

Originally Posted by Lee

Would love it but it’s not happening is it

If they don't launch a KYE tour it means that they are rich enough not to tour and just record albums just for fun. I don't think so, remembering JDB saying that they took another mortgage for making their new studio. I strongly expect a KYE tour!!!