Album 15

[rosetree]

Nice song. I'm looking forward to hear it all with the lyrics.

[Son of Stopped]

0 not happy 1 2 3 4 5 Halfwaypostivenegative 6 7 8 9 10 ultimate content.

Started thread at 10. Decline & Fall knocked down to 6/7. HIPS back up to 9/10. PRP comfortable 9/10 on the sample. What numbers have you been at in this thread?
And so it isn't taking any other way, feel free to continue FD bitching!

James looking at post: Aww, no! I'll have to make a decision about picking a number when they're all bollocks!

[Routine Builder]

Its the "Take Van Gogh leave us the sunflowers" (presuming Porco's lyric is not a joke) is what throws me off because he's referring to a painting without people but Van Gogh is also known for his self portrait. Maybe it's just a general rail against the extra textual spoiling the inherent beauty of a piece of art.

[rosetree]

I didn't think the lyrics posted by Porco were a joke, but I wonder if the first part is correct?

[Marconi Delorian]

Originally Posted by savemejebus

Mea culpa, I read the Send Away the Tigers chats but I actually did not realise that those criticisms came from you over the last days, it was not trying to get at you, and they're certainly not something for me to get 'butthurt' about being that they're valid criticisms.

If that has offended you, sorry.

I'm not sorry for pointing out that those same criticisms can be applied to the new song and that if one were to ignore them for people ruin paintings it'd be hypocritical.

And it's not 'I still don't like anything by them' it's 'I still don't like their recent output (edit) but I still listen as i'd love for them to do something amazing again'. Cheers

I'm not offended - I just recently questioned to you whether it's worthwhile to continually come back and say you don't like the latest song when it's been 15+ years since you last enjoyed anything and my question still stands. I accept that you were not being snarky about me so fair do's.

[Glyn]

Originally Posted by rosetree

I didn't think the lyrics posted by Porco were a joke, but I wonder if the first part is correct?

Everything after the smiley are correct.
Pleasant enough song and like the guitar solo. From first listen I was getting Ultra Vivid Lament, Rewind the Film and Lifeblood vibes (more sound wise than quality though). There is a chord progression that reminded me of a bit of JFPL but in a very different setting

[Porco]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

So is the subtext of this song about not being able to separate the art from the artist or something else? Hard to really tell from the lyric especially when the examples are not really cancelled. But hard to think that it's literally about people in paintings either as Nicky has been want to do quite a few self portraits of himself in his photography.

I think it’s both things (People who create paintings / people represented in paintings) and more.

Judging from comments here and elsewhere and what I have been able to read about the rest of the album so far, I think we would all do well to accept what they’ve told us; that (to paraphrase) the album has competing ideas, trying to make sense of things.

This isn’t a new thing for the band or their lyrics. Personally I’ve been reassessing my main complaint with PFAYM (album) recently, which wasn’t the production or music, but what I perceived in 2010 as A Billion Balconies…’. needless negative criticism of technology and those who use it.

But now I think my problem was I was (mis) interpreting that as being a monolithic lyric prejudicially casting anyone and everyone who expresses a view online as a clout-chasing saddo (to be fair, a Billion is still a lot, but maybe that was hyperbole and poetic licence more than a statistical analysis). Anyway, my point being, it’s possible to write a lyric from a point of view, and a depiction of that view doesn’t necessarily mean the author is announcing a slavish devotion to the exclusive message of one song for all of time, or that it represents the totality of their genuinely-held beliefs in life generally.

I think People Ruin Paintings is from the same vein as something like Solitude Sometimes Is, with an emphasis on the “sometimes”. It’s a feeling at a point or points in time and a song that flowed from that. And that is interesting and perfectly legitimate I think. There’s both abstract and figurative artists mentioned, and the contrasts of evocative natural locations that I think works beautifully. To your point, I think the use of Van Gogh is interesting precisely because he is famous for both self-portaits and paintings without any people in them, and the sunflowers ties the completely abstract works Pollock and Rothko are known for to the numerous references to the beauty of the natural world.

“Take the sailor out of the ocean” makes me think of JDB himself. Sailor-suit-wearing Ocean Spray writer…
“Take the flag from the sea of tranquility” recalls “why colonise the moon” while perhaps adding a topical sly dig at US interventionism in the era of people who destroy the truth… with their (two or more) faces, while also poetically linking the “Sea” to the “Ocean” (the tranquility of the moon (sans evidence of people) almost taking the people ruin paintings theme to the extreme of ‘water ruins oceans perhaps?!).

I think it’s also a song about escape. A bit like Australia. Except more than a yearning to physically escape to the other side of the world, it’s a yearning to be allowed a mental/spiritual escape, to the beauty of the world (and its moon!) without the hell that is other people.

And sure, it can be read through the lens of the ‘art vs the artist’ arguments, but also as a celebration of pure, visceral, aesthetic enjoyment of art, which to my mind is the genius of the enigmatic theme already present in the songs we’ve heard, almost telling us to enjoy the words while ignoring them. The tension of expressing thoughts whilst wishing them away. The “right to contradict” given form.

[TheUglyLie]

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Its the "Take Van Gogh leave us the sunflowers" (presuming Porco's lyric is not a joke) is what throws me off because he's referring to a painting without people but Van Gogh is also known for his self portrait. Maybe it's just a general rail against the extra textual spoiling the inherent beauty of a piece of art.

This line is actually the most interesting I think, because Van Gogh was “taken” from us early, and in some ways this has left his art to be unmarked by any later human ‘failings’ on his part.
Loving Porco’s thoughts on the whole thing too, which has shown you can take these songs on so many, and whatever levels, you want.
For example PRP could purely be seen as saying art, & our biggest influence on that, our planet (man does not create he discovers?), are wonderful when merely taken in. But we go and f things up with our actions.

[rosetree]

Originally Posted by Glyn

Everything after the smiley are correct.
Pleasant enough song and like the guitar solo. From first listen I was getting Ultra Vivid Lament, Rewind the Film and Lifeblood vibes (more sound wise than quality though). There is a chord progression that reminded me of a bit of JFPL but in a very different setting

Ah ok thanks, I see the connection with the JFPL and UVL vibe and chords, with the guitar solo. Sounds like its going to be a great song. I also notice a kind of mild slash 'n burn vibe, also in a different setting. Hopefully tomorrow we hear it completely and there will be a video.

[Son of Stopped]

From the snippet listen to what Sean's doing. It's a fantastic build up. Looking forward to tomorrow for it.

[Porco]

Originally Posted by rosetree

I didn't think the lyrics posted by Porco were a joke, but I wonder if the first part is correct?

You rumbled my sneaky little gag…

The funny thing is one could argue the song to be about/partly inspired by the likes of Just Stop Oil I guess, Van Gogh’s Sunflowers was a painting they ‘attacked’ (I don’t think it was ruined though), though even if you did look at the song through that… framing… I would say the lyrics would both tacitly support their cause while criticising their approach.

Thankfully it’s not quite that on-the-nose, which I presume is what some were concerned about(?) and what my joke stanza/gentle trolling was alluding to. But yes, the rest of the lyrics are real, I hope you enjoy the whole song when you hear it soon

Originally Posted by TheUglyLie

Am I the only one that miss heard the word Pollock on first listen to the snippet?!? :/

Never Mind the Pollocks, Here’s the Manic Street Preachers.

Originally Posted by TheUglyLie

For example PRP could purely be seen as saying art, & our biggest influence on that, our planet (man does not create he discovers?), are wonderful when merely taken in. But we go and f things up with our actions.

Very much so. There’s a connection I feel to ‘The drystone walls’ from D&F too, this picturesque image of something we created from nature, which has a natural decline/divide/dissolve, and is “a beauty that calls” … and all tied up with death and mortality and the passing of time, but the truth and beauty in art, or even just the idea of it, is something that persists, if we don’t ruin/destroy it, which we frequently do.

[IntlDebris]

My favourite of the three so far. Lots of space in the production in a way that reminds me a little of TIMTTMY, it feels very restrained in comparison to the previous two. Enjoying the subtly jazzy vibes popping up occasionally, and the melancholic feel of the chorus. It's not a world-beater, but it feels like it has its own identity rather than sounding like it was made by an AI fed on the band's festival setlists, which is always a plus.

[savemejebus]

Originally Posted by Marconi Delorian

I just recently questioned to you whether it's worthwhile to continually come back and say you don't like the latest song when it's been 15+ years since you last enjoyed anything and my question still stands.

While it may be an exaggeration to say 15+ years, as I love most of RTF and portions of Futurology, and have enjoyed some of the recent B-Sides, it is very fair to say that I've been very critical of the last two albums and of what I've heard from this one.

To answer your questions, yes I think it's worthwhile. Opposing voices are always worthwhile as long as they're not raised just for the sake of contrarian. I think it's especially important in Manics fandom as so many Manics fans are the die hard type that will just say whatever they've put out is good, and be grateful to get something and sing their praises regardless.

I've done it myself. I remember my mate complaining about 'Show me the Wonder' being a bit weak as a single and I said 'ah yeah, but you need to see it with the video to get the real impact' and then he turned to me like I had 2 heads and said 'dude, it's a fucking song from an album, not a multimedia project, it shouldn't need a video for someone to 'get it' (and it shouldn't sound like the theme tune off neighbours either)'. He was dead right, it's a weak single but my automatic response was to defend my favourite band.

Manics fans defend and defend and defend. Look at the people on here wondering why folk were annoyed at James, the singer in a supposedly politically aware band not voting on something that directly affected him, making light of it and wondering why we'd hold him up to the standards his band led us to expect.

I've been listening to the Manics since I first saw them live at 15 years old. They've been my favourite band since I was 18. I'm 47 now so that's 32 years, a significant portion of my life. Maybe I hold them to too high a standard but I really believe that anyone who has seen them play live knows that they are capable of much more than their last two albums show.

[Routine Builder]

The Ugly Lies, Porco, great points! Nice to have a lyric that at least feels like it has a bit more depth. Probably worth noting as well that Nicky has been doing a few exhibitions over the last few years so has been thinking about it more.

[rosetree]

Originally Posted by Porco

You rumbled my sneaky little gag…

The funny thing is one could argue the song to be about/partly inspired by the likes of Just Stop Oil I guess, Van Gogh’s Sunflowers was a painting they ‘attacked’ (I don’t think it was ruined though), though even if you did look at the song through that… framing… I would say the lyrics would both tacitly support their cause while criticising their approach.

Thankfully it’s not quite that on-the-nose, which I presume is what some were concerned about(?) and what my joke stanza/gentle trolling was alluding to. But yes, the rest of the lyrics are real, I hope you enjoy the whole song when you hear it soon

Well it did make me think the band might have wrote that ironically, though I figured the rest were real and to be honest I don't think Nicky would go down the path of endorsing just stop oil into his lyrics, though the lyrics possibly hint at the actions and desperate measures to save the planet. Possibly Nicky prefers the pessimism though and self destruction of what has lead to the activism to alert and because of his art and the exhibitions. I also think Nicky's lyrics are probably more deeper, real and cryptic as well.