Distant Colours

[revcheese]

Originally Posted by Tim

Don’t you love the phenomenon on comments threads of people not posting anything for months on end (since may 2017 in your case) to show up and absolutely must tell us all how much they hate a new track? You don’t like it or any of their recent stuff, we get it, we do. But saying nonsense like it’s “enabling” or nobody outside the fandom liked rewind the film or futurology (plainly not true as pointed out by others) needs to stop. Time to move on maybe?

I'm not bothered by that, message boards like these are a bit of a dying breed - it's arguably worse when it's someone who makes a living on a board consisting of thousands of posts that only ever bash the subject.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Automatik

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's a discussion forum. A little disagreement does nobody any harm whatsoever.

Those that like the new single have said why; those that dislike it have said why. Both are interesting arguments and, personally, I enjoy reading different perspectives.

Originally Posted by Takk

Personally I'm just glad people are taking the time to post, no matter what they post. It's nice to see some activity, and that the music is still causing a reaction. I don't see why it 'needs to stop', it's just as much as a valid opinion. Would be boring otherwise.

At the risk of dragging this on for longer... it's not simply a matter of someone disliking the track though, is it? Obviously i have no problem with that but using trigger words out of context like "enabling" for a bloody pop record and accusing us all of being in an echo chamber for liking the records they don't like well, that's when it starts getting personal and has gone beyond subjective opinion. That's what needs to stop but carry on critiquing the songs by all means, as i have done myself. Great to see people come back but not just to have a tantrum and call us all chumps for liking the music. It's pathetic is what it is.

Originally Posted by hummingbird

Always interesting to read opinions provided they're not condescending to others.

This is exactly what i've found several comments in the thread to be: condescending.

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by Automatik

Yes, I agree - such a view doesn't make any sense to me either.

Quality goes up and down, too. For example (using the last 10-15 years), I thought Leviathan was incredible, but then came parts of SATT that I don't like, but then I loved JFPL, and was then disappointed by PFAYM, thought RTF was a bit too brass band but then adored Futurology.

Distant Colours is fairly clearly not their best work but I have faith that they'll wow me again yet.

To be honest I don't think it's possible to really quantify quality for anything were something as subjective as personal preference is concerned. Yeah, maybe with a recipe you could use the most expensive ingredients but if you can't cook you can't cook. More expensive doesn't really mean better either, you get people spending loads on hairstyles manufacturing the just got out of bed look, or spending loads on production trying to make summat sound like it was recorded in a garage.

The problem I had with tzb's post is the opposite of what I'm saying here. He doesn't like it, therefore it's shit and if they carry on doing stuff he doesn't like, they're going to ruin the stuff he does/did like so they should stop. Fucking bizarre.

Originally Posted by Routine Builder

Once I heard the sample video samples Resistance is Futile, I knew I would love the album that came afterwards. All I want for this period is winter tour of smaller regional venues. And Prologue to History...

Just given that another listen again and it does give quite a range of snippets eh? Course, back to International Blue and the snippet that was put out for that, maybe these aren't the biggest clues of what's to come.

Yeah... I'll be surprised if they don't end up doing winter gigs.

Originally Posted by hummingbird

I couldn't give a shit if they're less popular than they were.. I still like what they release RTF is one of my favourite manics albums... could not give a fig what anyone else thinks.
Always interesting to read opinions provided they're not condescending to others.

I must admit when the charts did mean summat I used to enjoy seeing bands I liked breaking into the top 5. Suppose it's a bit of a football fan mentality, I like them, I want them to succeed (whether we're talking league tables, critical acclaim or whatever) and I'm happy when they do, but if they don't it doesn't change what I think of them.

Originally Posted by Abstract Unknown Girl

I think it's inevitable you're not going to like everything released by a band that has been around as long as the Manics have and I don't think people need to take it personally if something hasn't met their expectations; it's bound to happen.

When you're a long standing fan of anything you have to take the rough with the smooth...or if there's really nothing left for you to enjoy about it at all, it probably is best to move on and let others enjoy themselves rather than sneering at them for something you once felt the same about. That's not to say fans can't criticise or dislike things etc. (one thing this forum could never be accused of is sycophancy ) but for me, hobbies and interests are supposed to be fun. If you genuinely find no enjoyment in something anymore, I don't know why you'd bother tbh. I've fallen out of love with lots of past interests; I remember them fondly but for whatever reason they just don't represent who I am anymore and that's fine. The lowest point in the Manics' career for me was PFAYM (I actually don't think I've listened to it since around the time it was toured), but there are plenty of other albums of theirs I enjoy, so that's why I'm still here.

As for popularity, since when was that the only measure of quality? If it was, we would all be in agreement that artists like Ed Sheeran were the greatest musicians of all time. I'd like to think the Manics are passed that phase now; of course it's nice to be liked, but there must be enough interest to make them want to keep going. This forum isn't exactly an accurate representation of their fan base any more either, seen as forums have been largely replaced by Twitter and Facebook for fan discussions.

Yeah, it's silly isn't it? Need to find some balance and sense of perspective. Course on the one hand we're going to have different expectations according to all sorts of stuff, and if anyone loves everything their favourite band does, good for them. I think they're very fortunate and it's not for me or anyone else to tell them that they shouldn't love what they do. It's the entitlement that winds me up. If I don't like summat they do, ah well, I'll get over it, better luck next time, we'll always have Paris. If I don't get over it, I've got problems! Yeah, the band needs fans, they couldn't carry on without em and fuck it, some fans prefer Lifeblood to Holy Bible, some prefer Generation Terrorists to This Is My Truth, whatever. They're all fans, we're all customers, but the band don't exist for my whims and calls, if you think they've got to justify their continued existence to you, how entitled are you? Not you you obvs.

From what I remember on here around the time, there was quite a big downer on Postcards. But course this place is a bubble in itself too. Not too fond of the album meself but still got fond memories of the era. Still, it was their tenth album. In my subjective opinion and ranking system, at that point they had five excellent albums, three good ones and that was the second of two ok ones. Can't win em all, it's not the end of the world but when you get people acting like releasing summat they don't like is a betrayal, it's the tail wagging the dog, doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Tim

At the risk of dragging this on for longer... it's not simply a matter of someone disliking the track though, is it? Obviously i have no problem with that but using trigger words out of context like "enabling" for a bloody pop record and accusing us all of being in an echo chamber for liking the records they don't like well, that's when it starts getting personal and has gone beyond subjective opinion. That's what needs to stop but carry on critiquing the songs by all means, as i have done myself. Great to see people come back but not just to have a tantrum and call us all chumps for liking the music. It's pathetic is what it is.

Originally Posted by Tim

This is exactly what i've found several comments in the thread to be: condescending.

Yeah... you shouldn't like what you like, you shouldn't be supporting a band that does things I don't like, they should stop doing things I don't like, my opinion matters, yours doesn't. Fuck me, how profoundly arrogant can you get?

[Automatik]

Originally Posted by hummingbird

I couldn't give a shit if they're less popular than they were.. could not give a fig what anyone else thinks.

Originally Posted by Abstract Unknown Girl

As for popularity, since when was that the only measure of quality?

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

I must admit when the charts did mean summat I used to enjoy seeing bands I liked breaking into the top 5. Suppose it's a bit of a football fan mentality, I like them, I want them to succeed (whether we're talking league tables, critical acclaim or whatever) and I'm happy when they do, but if they don't it doesn't change what I think of them.

I agree with all this. But if there's one group of people who are acutely concerned by their commercial popularity it is the band themselves - I don't know whether it's for financial reasons, reasons of recognition ('national treasures') or out of sheer old-fashioned love for the charts and basic competitiveness.

I like to see an album doing well but I don't confuse that with any measurement of its intrinsic artistic value. I do fear that the band, by contrast, are bitterly sensitive to their work not being 'popular'. Sixteen million albums and all that.

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

Yeah, it's silly isn't it? Need to find some balance and sense of perspective... Yeah... you shouldn't like what you like, you shouldn't be supporting a band that does things I don't like, they should stop doing things I don't like, my opinion matters, yours doesn't. Fuck me, how profoundly arrogant can you get?

Unfortunately - and I do not mean that glibly - that is the dominant attitude on the internet now. Condescension instead of discussion and a determination to humiliate a presumed opponent rather than merely disagree with them. I am going to repeat myself here but I really do blame social media for it.

I didn't like PFAYM but if someone else finds it the most wondrous album they have ever heard, and if it gets them into the band, then I am genuinely delighted for them and want to hear their opinion as to why.

Originally Posted by Bambi

Hello FD! *waves* Haven't been on in a while. Might be healthy to have the odd break from a 13-year habit, I suppose!

The song's a bit dull, but the acoustic International Blue being a thing of loveliness makes up for it. It's the Manics: first they giveth then they take it away.

Anyway, good to see people arguing again. Good for the soul.

Bambi x

Welcome back! Wondered where you'd got to.

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by Automatik

I agree with all this. But if there's one group of people who are acutely concerned by their commercial popularity it is the band themselves - I don't know whether it's for financial reasons, reasons of recognition ('national treasures') or out of sheer old-fashioned love for the charts and basic competitiveness.

I'm not really sure what they want themselves anymore! Remember thinking around the Past, Present and Future and spring Send Away The Tigers tours that they were revelling in the step down from arenas to academies, sure I remember reading a couple of interviews dotted about with Nicky moaning about soulless arenas.. They always seem to react against themselves too, success is an ugly word eh. One last shot at mass communication.. Whatever they're doing, it's been an interesting ride.

Originally Posted by Automatik

Unfortunately - and I do not mean that glibly - that is the dominant attitude on the internet now. Condescension instead of discussion and a determination to humiliate a presumed opponent rather than merely disagree with them. I am going to repeat myself here but I really do blame social media for it.

Yeah, think you've hit the nail on the head there and it's something that interests me almost as much as it irritates me. I was messing about on Facebook last night and in one of the local groups someone put up a post moaning about the group cos for some reason you do see a lot of nasty, argumentative, condescending, abusive shit on there. When you walk around the area, get chatting to strangers down the pub or whatever, it's nothing like that at all.

Which makes me wonder about stuff like this thread now. What do people get out of trying to undermine or upset people, make them feel small, use their own subjective opinions to tell other people how invalid their subjective opinions are or whatever. If that's not what people are trying to do, I don't know what they are trying to do. I don't know what they think the point of condescension is or whether they accept that they're being condescending. Would tzb or whoever be as keen to talk to people face to face the way they do on line? How did shit get so personal?

[Porco]

I think there's a lot of truth in what some of you are saying about the effect of social media and condescending attitudes online, but I don't think it's fair to either blame it all on that, or to point to tzb as some totemic example... I always liked him, even if I disagree with his opinions on recent Manics material, but if he feels that way it stands to reason why he hasn't spent as much time on a Manics forum lately! The real oddballs of the internet are those who spend ages saying how terrible everything is, over and over again, instead of spending time on things they enjoy more. But I think to some people it's become almost a kind of sport. The "two minutes hate" directed towards whatever flavour of thing one personally enjoys hating the most. It's a bit weird. But I think it's possibly a phase humanity is going through as we learn to become used to this strange new (on a historical scale) world of instant communication at a distance, in several different forms (whether phonecalls, email, forums, facebook, twitter etc) - I think we're all still learning the psychological impact of that upon our behaviour.

I also think we're all in danger of* (... or fortunately honoured to be*...*delete as applicable) slowly becoming Nicky Wire.

Anyway. Distant Colours! I have to say whilst I liked it at first, it's grown on me a lot and I love it now, and I can't wait for the album.

[Carson]

I think long-time Manics fans being wistful about the band not being as good in their late forties compared to their early twenties is the most Manics thing. Like the living embodiment of a Wire lyric.

I gave it a few days between listens and Distant Colours is still instantly forgettable. Not that it's bad; I just with the Manics still had some anger in them.

[Flint]

I realise I probably come across as one of these people who have woken up from hibernation just to make statements that I'm not very impressed, but I only really use this forum to talk about Manics stuff and right now there's not much other Manics stuff to talk about than the new song (which I'm still not really feeling, though funnily I think it's the chorus that lets down the verses rather than the other way around). Still love the band tho, if anything the fact that Futurology has easily shot right up among the band's top 5 albums has kinda made this album's apparent direction a bit less exciting for me. And the interview bits about them being concerned about commercial aspects again is making me scream at my technology rectangles. YOU WERE GETTING BETTER.

In other words it's unfathomably tragic how The Best B-Sides Band has now given up giving up on those as well and I'm eternally grumpy about not being able to geek out on some new single bonus tracks.

[hummingbird]

I can understand not liking new stuff putting u off the old. The star Wars prequels put me off watching the original trilogy for a few years. I guess I didn't want reminding they existed. My heart was broken

[Mr.Selfdestruct]

Based on the singles expectations are low, but it's hardly the end of the world. Futurology and Rewind The Film were both very good and nothing close to manics by the numbers. Even Postcards has some really good tracks once you get passed those awful singles. And before that was Journals, which IMO is only bettered by The Holy Bible. A very good solid 10 or so years of music from the band considering after Send Away The Tigers my interest in them dropped off completely. And they're still brilliant live. I'd be gutted at the thought of never seeing them again if they split.

[Abstract Unknown Girl]

I feel like I've already managed my expectations a bit about the new album, as I'm not sure it'll be as good as Futurology/Rewind the Film, but obviously I could be completely wrong and will have to wait to hear it all to make a proper judgement.

I think they have put themselves under pressure to release something now though, because there had been such a big gap between albums (plus James seems to get very restless when he's not making music, so I imagine he was eager to get going again). I also wonder if all the upheaval (anniversary tours, the studio move, Nicky's mum not being well etc.) might have disrupted their focus a bit; I know Nicky said in one recent interview it had been a struggle to know where they were going next. I'm not trying to make excuses if it doesn't turn out to be a good album, but these do feel like genuine reasons why we might have got something else if the circumstances had been different.

I've just read the Quietus interview with Nicky and I think they're always going to be slightly at odds with themselves. There's wishing an ideal situation were the truth (being massively popular/relevant/selling millions of albums, or whatever it is part of them still seems to want) and accepting the reality of the music industry these days (albums/singles charts meaning very little and live music being the main focus, hence why I imagine they're playing arenas again). I don't think this struggle necessarily means they're not being true to themselves with their music though; this doesn't feel like another misguided "last shot at mass communication"...well, so far anyway.

I do hope there is something with a bit more of an edge on the album than the two songs we've heard so far. But then they released Show Me The Wonder and nothing else on RTF was anything like that, so for all we know, these two tracks could be a red herring.

[usagainstyou]

There’s something I don’t understand.
On Youtube, this song has 1K likes and only 79 dislikes and the comments are very positive, e.g. brilliant, awesome, beautiful, great work, loving this, fantastic, lovely, epic, gorgeous, etc.
While here... you know...

[ZiZi]

Honestly, I didn't like the song very much on first listens. But what the hell, this song is a grower.
Also, Distant Colours seems to provoke more 'communication' than International Blue. In my surroundings, IB was not worth the interaction, it seemed. "Just an OK song". But everyone seems to love this one. "Nice, fresh, addictive, a hopeful melancholy, beautiful video". Go Manics, we love you! Looking forward to the rest of the album and the tour.

[Europa Gluten Free]

It's a gorgeous song.

Plus any Manics song in the key of E (Motorcycle Emptiness, Everything Must Go, No Surface All Feeling, jesus even You Stole The Sun) always have big E chord thrashing shouty choruses.

[Automatik]

Originally Posted by Flint

In other words it's unfathomably tragic how The Best B-Sides Band has now given up giving up on those as well and I'm eternally grumpy about not being able to geek out on some new single bonus tracks.

A million times this.

Maybe someone will do a remix of Distant Colours.