Album 15

[ForeverDelayed.com]

Originally Posted by savemejebus

a) If they're not writing lyrics to sell then they should really stop scalping fans in their efforts to manipulate the numbers to sell enough to get No. 1 albums shouldn't they and stop harping on about how much chart positions mean to them?

Don’t want to argue - in the 90s, would you say the same about the multiple formats? 2cds, 2 7”, 1 cassette, 1 dvd single etc.
Is that exploitation?
I mean - come on. This is just the name of the game.
You can buy as many formats as you want (or none). It’s a choice.

[theplague]

Originally Posted by ForeverDelayed.com

Don’t want to argue - in the 90s, would you say the same about the multiple formats? 2cds, 2 7”, 1 cassette, 1 dvd single etc.
Is that exploitation?
I mean - come on. This is just the name of the game.
You can buy as many formats as you want (or none). It’s a choice.

On these formats we at least got a bunch of great extra tracks.
(Typically, these b-sides were pretty much always better than any singles/album tracks that are released nowadays)

And it was A LOT cheaper than buying multiple albums now(which of course is optional, and insane in my world).

So, for like £8-10 you got almost an extra album(again, a lot better than their recents albums) of great music with each single release.

In a sense the same “game”, but a lot more affordable and gave a lot more.

[savemejebus]

Originally Posted by ForeverDelayed.com

Don’t want to argue - in the 90s, would you say the same about the multiple formats? 2cds, 2 7”, 1 cassette, 1 dvd single etc.
Is that exploitation?
I mean - come on. This is just the name of the game.
You can buy as many formats as you want (or none). It’s a choice.

Well as I said earlier in this thread:

When they were releasing like that though you'd get CD1 and 2 for £1.99 each and the casette for £0.99. So you'd get the single and a bunch of b-sides for a fiver. That was decent value.

It's also important to note that we are talking about singles there. Album variations are a different beastie. I recall

Yes in the 90s you had CD,LP and Cassette but (apart from early pressings) they were essentially the same content. Plus they were purchased based mostly on the format you could play based on your economic postion, CDs were king and as the industry transitioned to that it progressed to a main CD version and possibly imports from other regions like the Japanese version of the holy bible that was horrendously expensive for years.

I don't think that is really comparable that to releasing:

Standard LP
Alt Cover LP
Standard CD
Deluxe Hardcover Book (Includes 12 Demo Tracks)
Casette
MP3 Download
Piano version (includes MP3 Album Download)

The band are fully aware of how their hardcore fans will react in a completionist way.

It may be the name of the game but then so is dynamic pricing and it all adds up to scalping the fans.

[hummingbird]

I dont think releasing multiiple copies of an album is scalping fans as its a choice - buying one copy of the album still gets you the album. You're not missing out on much - most of the extra tracks will be available on streaming aswell.

Dynamic pricing is a different beast and thankfully the manics dont bother with it - if you want to see a band live and they've signed up for dynamic pricing cos some-one needs to "pay for a divorce" - yeah looking at you Noel then that IS scalping in my book

1.99 , 2.99 , 3.99 sounds like peanuts today but in the 90s i couldnt afford the CD singles with the b sides - i used to buy the cheaper ones with the remixes.

Everything is more expensive these days - the price of new vinyl is INSANE 40 -50 quid for a new album... we were complaining in the 90s when a CD was close to 20 quid - i bought the CD version of GT last in 96 97 cos it cost 18.99.

HMV is running a half price vinyl sale and some of them are half price at 35 quid .... utter madness ... INSANITY

[savemejebus]

If your fanbase was made up of mainly casual fans who would just buy one copy of the record then I'd agree. The manics fanbase isn't like that is it? Its a hardcore, devoted fanbase where a larger proportion of it will buy anything the band put out. They'll do it out of love of the band and completionist tendencies and they'll do it again and again and again. The band/band management are fully aware of it and take advantage of it.

BTW you got seriously scalped on that GT purchase. That was the price of Stars and Stripes in the nearest Tower Records to me. GT and GATS were £8.99 and £7.99 respectively.

[Son of Stopped]

Broke over a week not listening (National Treasures and Lifeblood and KYE which has sold out on their store) and picked the perfect day to get back into the album.
Nothing is skipped. Accepted for what it is. It rocks more than the 2010's and has a lead over GATS and SATT.
It's beautiful it made me loose track of time while playing them. Could only ever get one thing. Bad Manics fan then!

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by savemejebus

If your fanbase was made up of mainly casual fans who would just buy one copy of the record then I'd agree. The manics fanbase isn't like that is it? Its a hardcore, devoted fanbase where a larger proportion of it will buy anything the band put out. They'll do it out of love of the band and completionist tendencies and they'll do it again and again and again. The band/band management are fully aware of it and take advantage of it.

BTW you got seriously scalped on that GT purchase. That was the price of Stars and Stripes in the nearest Tower Records to me. GT and GATS were £8.99 and £7.99 respectively.

Thinking about it I think it was 15.99 not 18 and this was tower records Piccadilly Circus in London which was generally more expensive than hmv or virgin for non chart stuff. Likely I bought it later maybe 2000? Single albums averaged 12.99 on CD a double album would be more ..the Beatles white album in the early to mid 90s on CD was £21 or thereabouts ..I paid £11 cos I used a gift voucher . It was only when I started buying CDs online in the naughties that I was paying a tenner or
less .

I'm one of those die hard collectors ...I don't begrudge the band on that. It's still my choice. Their gigs are cheaper than most well established bands out there. They could definitely charge more
EDIT: broke one of my vinyl buying rules tho' - only buy on vinyl if i like the artwork - I am not a fan of that album cover !

[Oh Nick...!]

Originally Posted by savemejebus

If your fanbase was made up of mainly casual fans who would just buy one copy of the record then I'd agree. The manics fanbase isn't like that is it? Its a hardcore, devoted fanbase where a larger proportion of it will buy anything the band put out. They'll do it out of love of the band and completionist tendencies and they'll do it again and again and again. The band/band management are fully aware of it and take advantage of it.

BTW you got seriously scalped on that GT purchase. That was the price of Stars and Stripes in the nearest Tower Records to me. GT and GATS were £8.99 and £7.99 respectively.

My bug bear is that so many bands put loads of formats up for preorder, so as a loyal fan you make your choice(s), but then during release week or thenabouts they reveal that if you want extra tracks/alternative versions/demos, or to see them play Rough Trade or Kingston Prysm, you have to buy again - and quick! This isn't a free choice if you're a genuine fan of the band's music, it's capitalising on your fandom to falsely boost their chart position. Really rubs me up the wrong way, especially when my CD and vinyl shelves are totally full...

[savemejebus]

Originally Posted by Oh Nick...!

My bug bear is that so many bands put loads of formats up for preorder, so as a loyal fan you make your choice(s), but then during release week or thenabouts they reveal that if you want extra tracks/alternative versions/demos, or to see them play Rough Trade or Kingston Prysm, you have to buy again - and quick! This isn't a free choice if you're a genuine fan of the band's music, it's capitalising on your fandom to falsely boost their chart position. Really rubs me up the wrong way, especially when my CD and vinyl shelves are totally full...

Ah the good old £4.99 piano vewrsions only available on the week of release.

They should really have been on the 2 CD book version along with the 2 songs on the limited edition 7".

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by Oh Nick...!

My bug bear is that so many bands put loads of formats up for preorder, so as a loyal fan you make your choice(s), but then during release week or thenabouts they reveal that if you want extra tracks/alternative versions/demos, or to see them play Rough Trade or Kingston Prysm, you have to buy again - and quick! This isn't a free choice if you're a genuine fan of the band's music, it's capitalising on your fandom to falsely boost their chart position. Really rubs me up the wrong way, especially when my CD and vinyl shelves are totally full...

Originally Posted by savemejebus

Ah the good old £4.99 piano vewrsions only available on the week of release.

They should really have been on the 2 CD book version along with the 2 songs on the limited edition 7".

I missed out on those ... boo .. yeah shouldve been on the deluxe version

[rosetree]

Originally Posted by everlasting

That's really good I haven't heard of that song, was that only available on vinyl with one of the many versions of the album?

Yeah it's the vinyl bonus track with Johatsu. I hope they play it at Manchester, or Critical Thinking.

[Ben]

I've really been enjoying Critical Thinking a lot. Definitely some catchy songs on there and I was genuinely excited to hear them live. That hasn't happened for a while.

[Mumbojumbo]

I spent £28 (yes, TWENTY EIGHT POUNDS!) on Manic Millennium on DVD from HMV in Edinburgh in like 2001. I watched the hell out of that. Then got like 50p for it on Music Magpie when I moved house and decided physical media was not a good use of space.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by BrianPowell

I do wonder, what does a good Manics record sound like in 2025?

I was thinking that you don’t really get any real fast, rock songs from them any more. Something like Faster, You Love Us or PCP. Everything seems to be more mid-tempo. This is probably a victim of them being older now but something faster and heavier would be very welcome.

[Son of Stopped]

Originally Posted by Ben

I was thinking that you don’t really get any real fast, rock songs from them any more. Something like Faster, You Love Us or PCP. Everything seems to be more mid-tempo. This is probably a victim of them being older now but something faster and heavier would be very welcome.

And yet I've found a lot of their previous albums sound slower compared to CT.
James is definitely leaning back into guitar. I just hope the next album is "Well after the piano I got dead dead into vibrophones!". As long as the guitars are kept. That's all anyone really wants. Will be 2027 or 2028 by that time. Biggest hope to keep it together, somewhere on a leaf of paper or in their studio archive. Somewhere there's either a completed, fragment sketch or first few words of new Manics material.
I haven't a clue what it'll sound like but it is my thrill I don't know what it sounds like.